2021 Genesis GV80
03-13-20, 06:50 AM
#301
Don't know about luxury customers, but Hyundai sold way more Genesis back when it was still branded as a Hyundai. 25,000 Genesis sedans were sold in 2015, and 18,000 in 2016. The 2015 sales of the sedan alone were more than what they've sold for the entire brand in the past year with the G70/80/90 (about 21,000 combined). The sales actually went down because they decided to rebadge it and couldn't sort out their dealer network, getting sued by their own Hyundai dealers in the process for trying to set up a new Genesis-only franchise.
Can't knock Genesis for not trying, but Hyundai dealerships are such parasites that they'll drag down the parent company with them.
Can't knock Genesis for not trying, but Hyundai dealerships are such parasites that they'll drag down the parent company with them.
03-13-20, 07:09 AM
#302
Lexus Fanatic
Don't know about luxury customers, but Hyundai sold way more Genesis back when it was still branded as a Hyundai. 25,000 Genesis sedans were sold in 2015, and 18,000 in 2016. The 2015 sales of the sedan alone were more than what they've sold for the entire brand in the past year with the G70/80/90 (about 21,000 combined). The sales actually went down because they decided to rebadge it and couldn't sort out their dealer network, getting sued by their own Hyundai dealers in the process for trying to set up a new Genesis-only franchise.
Can't knock Genesis for not trying, but Hyundai dealerships are such parasites that they'll drag down the parent company with them.
Can't knock Genesis for not trying, but Hyundai dealerships are such parasites that they'll drag down the parent company with them.
03-13-20, 07:43 AM
#304
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
My comment was specifically to SW17LS, but yes, you and many others on CL are definitely not typical consumers.
mmarshall's comment was in response to mine about mainstream brand dealers, NOT luxury dealers. and mmarshall has certainly been to all kinds of 'proper' luxury car dealers... he's probably been to more dealers than most of us.
Genesis has a road ahead and changes needed to be sure... maybe at some point they'll pull the plug, but i think they're committed to plans for at least the next few years.
mmarshall's comment was in response to mine about mainstream brand dealers, NOT luxury dealers. and mmarshall has certainly been to all kinds of 'proper' luxury car dealers... he's probably been to more dealers than most of us.
03-13-20, 07:48 AM
#305
Given how much of a success they've been in their home country, I doubt they will can it anytime soon. With their new CUV on the horizon and their dealerships being able to actually sell cars now (something that couldn't happen before due to the ridiculous lawsuit and dealership mess that prevented a good chunk of G70 and G90 from even making it into dealerships in a timely manner upon introduction), I expect them to be as successful as they were with the Telluride and Palisade. Whether those customers buying them will be from luxury brands or not doesn't matter all that much. As more affluent customers arrive, the dealerships will have no choice but to change.
Last edited by Motorola; 03-13-20 at 07:57 AM.
03-13-20, 08:29 AM
#306
Lexus Fanatic
03-13-20, 09:08 AM
#307
I think the Genesis brand is 5 years in now. Very hard to make it work at this point in the US. Worldwide maybe, in markets that have never heard of the brand. People also have to stop trying to compare them to Lexus, they are not Lexus and they need to make their own path....whatever that is.....Lexus is only a success because of the success of Toyota.......A Genesis branded Palisade would be a huge hit (in the United States)
03-13-20, 09:23 AM
#309
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
no, G90 first model year was 2017. hyundai had MODELS named genesis (coupe and sedan) but that wasn't a separate brand then.
they tried to be nice to their hyundai dealers and let them all sell genesis brand but then realized many don't cut it, but then were sued when trying to cut them off (you can't pick and choose models/brands sold under a single franchise agreement) so they had to take away genesis from all then re-authorize all eligible genesis dealer franchises separately. that certainly was a cluster and cost them thousands of sales. BUT the g70 has won endless awards and has sold reasonably well in a crowded market with dwindling interest from consumers. the refreshed (2020) G90 has received widespread praise with consistent questions about how much people care about brands... as you know, they do, but great product can and does make converts... it will be a slow climb, if ever, and the virus certainly will CRUSH all auto sales this year. so who knows. but to your point, they're not 5 years in, they're 3 in with 1 lost year.
why do you say the first point? because they could leverage toyota platforms for lexus? that's only fwd platforms of course which, while they sell (well), diminish lexus' credibility - most don't consider the RX to be the equal of GLE or X5 for example.
all branding is a compromise somehow... you have to sell enough to be viable, but often what you have to sell is at odds with what you project. like a lambo suv.
they tried to be nice to their hyundai dealers and let them all sell genesis brand but then realized many don't cut it, but then were sued when trying to cut them off (you can't pick and choose models/brands sold under a single franchise agreement) so they had to take away genesis from all then re-authorize all eligible genesis dealer franchises separately. that certainly was a cluster and cost them thousands of sales. BUT the g70 has won endless awards and has sold reasonably well in a crowded market with dwindling interest from consumers. the refreshed (2020) G90 has received widespread praise with consistent questions about how much people care about brands... as you know, they do, but great product can and does make converts... it will be a slow climb, if ever, and the virus certainly will CRUSH all auto sales this year. so who knows. but to your point, they're not 5 years in, they're 3 in with 1 lost year.
Lexus is only a success because of the success of Toyota.......A Genesis branded Palisade would be a huge hit (in the United States)
all branding is a compromise somehow... you have to sell enough to be viable, but often what you have to sell is at odds with what you project. like a lambo suv.
03-13-20, 09:34 AM
#310
Your argument is riveting..
You said it would be hard to make Genesis work at this point in the US, followed by A Genesis branded Palisade would be a huge hit in the US. That's a contradiction. Perhaps sit idle and let Genesis do their thing, get the GV80 out first, before you make absolute declarations.
You said it would be hard to make Genesis work at this point in the US, followed by A Genesis branded Palisade would be a huge hit in the US. That's a contradiction. Perhaps sit idle and let Genesis do their thing, get the GV80 out first, before you make absolute declarations.
03-13-20, 09:45 AM
#311
Lexus Fanatic
Your argument is riveting..
You said it would be hard to make Genesis work at this point in the US, followed by A Genesis branded Palisade would be a huge hit in the US. That's a contradiction. Perhaps sit idle and let Genesis do their thing, get the GV80 out first, before you make absolute declarations.
You said it would be hard to make Genesis work at this point in the US, followed by A Genesis branded Palisade would be a huge hit in the US. That's a contradiction. Perhaps sit idle and let Genesis do their thing, get the GV80 out first, before you make absolute declarations.
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 03-13-20 at 09:55 AM.
03-13-20, 03:23 PM
#312
Lexus Fanatic
YOU are not a typical consumer. Salespersons at 'mainstream dealers' as you call them, work at a 'hustle' level... salespersons at a luxury car dealer are more subtle but recognize if a customer knows what they're talking about and hold back on the velvet covered stiletto knife because a customer like you will see it coming and leave. But MOST customers have no clue how much they're being manipulated and taken. And luxury dealers know to appeal to ego, status, etc., to open a customer's wallet wider.
most, but not all.
you are indeed very confident 
and while what you say is mostly the case, it's not universally true, or entirely correct, imo.
and while what you say is mostly the case, it's not universally true, or entirely correct, imo.
Exactly, and Tesla contradicts your sweeping statements. Even if Tesla's are not the traditional 'luxury' vehicle, they're very much a status purchase, and not inexpensive. And yet they don't even have dealers, just showrooms and stores, some of which are industrial warehouses. the times, they are a changin'...
the times, they are a changin'...
03-13-20, 05:34 PM
#313
People also have to stop trying to compare them to Lexus, they are not Lexus and they need to make their own path....whatever that is.....Lexus is only a success because of the success of Toyota.......A Genesis branded Palisade would be a huge hit (in the United States)
03-13-20, 05:42 PM
#314
Lexus Fanatic
03-13-20, 05:50 PM
#315
What is there not to agree with? Rebadging an existing Toyota product as a Lexus is very much what Lexus is known for, and not in a good way. And you are suggesting Genesis to do the same. With Lexus axing their GS and maybe even the IS, they continue to dilute the brand even further into being upscale FWD Toyota trims.