2021 Genesis GV80
07-01-20, 12:26 PM
#421
Based on MSRP, yes- but they're flying off the lot even with stupid dealer markups of $5K+, and on top-trim models too. That's already well into Lexus RX territory before discounts.
The GV80 is quite a bit more expensive, but given what the Genesis CEO said recently about already having 10k preorders locked in, the price certainly hasn't deterred that many people.
The GV80 is quite a bit more expensive, but given what the Genesis CEO said recently about already having 10k preorders locked in, the price certainly hasn't deterred that many people.
Fair assessment
07-01-20, 12:56 PM
#422
Lexus Fanatic
Offering value is what Lexus had to do when they were trying to establish themselves. They still do to a point, but the margin of difference nowadays is far less. X5 is a stellar utility vehicle. As for Genesis it matches up nicely but I still think they need some brick and mortar stores. Them coming to my house is convenient if I want that, but personally I don't want to test drive a car in my neighborhood slamming on brakes or testing acceleration
07-02-20, 07:12 AM
#423
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
The whole point of Lexus was to serve the Toyota customer who wanted a luxury brand....
years ago, when i thought of lexus, i though of exquisitely designed and made vehicles that one aspires to. now, besides the LC and LS, i think of them as toyotas with some sprinkles on top. it's the same mistake acura made.
07-02-20, 07:33 AM
#424
Lexus Champion
Working overtime can sometimes make a production-problem worse. Tired employees that have to work too many hours, particularly with repetitive-motion jobs on assembly lines that can overstrain bones, muscles, and joints, are more likely to make mistakes. There is a reason why the human body has to have food and rest.
07-02-20, 07:37 AM
#425
Lexus Champion
The third row will be addressed. People need to understand the RX L was an afterthought. They did what they could for a short term solution. They will give more effort to the 5RX with a third row in mind. The current RX L was rushed to market simply to slow the bleeding from not having a three row crossover.
07-02-20, 07:45 AM
#426
Lexus Fanatic
In the 90s none of the people we knew that bought a Lexus had ever owned a Toyota, including my dad. He came from American luxury cars, Cadillacs and Lincolns and moved to Lexus instead of moving to MB or BMW. He didn't buy one until 1998, but he wanted the original 1990 LS400 it was just too expensive and he was concerned about the image since he did work with labor unions who were obviously pro American made cars.
People think the LS400 was cheap...and it was cheap compared to MB and BMW competitors but if you drove Lincolns or Cadillacs, they were considerably more expensive...certainly WAY more expensive than any Toyota. The fully loaded 1990 Lincoln Continental he got instead of the LS400 was $10,000 cheaper than an LS400.
Thats like saying with the G90 Hyundai is trying to capture Sonata buyers and thats just silly. Nobody goes from a $32,000 loaded Sonata straight to a $75,000 G90. They didn't go from a $19,000 Camry to a $40,000+ LS400 either. I would say Genesis isn't really looking for move up Hyundai owners either...
Last edited by SW17LS; 07-02-20 at 08:01 AM.
07-02-20, 08:02 AM
#427
Lexus Fanatic
Apples and Oranges. In most plants, in general, fewer mistakes are made as production experience is gained with any particular vehicle. But that does not negate the fact that tired and overworked employees are more likely to make any given situation worse. That is a simply fact of life, not my opinion .
07-02-20, 09:57 AM
#428
Lexus Champion
Apples and Oranges. In most plants, in general, fewer mistakes are made as production experience is gained with any particular vehicle. But that does not negate the fact that tired and overworked employees are more likely to make any given situation worse. That is a simply fact of life, not my opinion .
07-02-20, 10:10 AM
#429
Lexus Fanatic
i think the lexus 'monster' has lost a lot of its scariness. years ago, when i thought of lexus, i though of exquisitely designed and made vehicles that one aspires to. now, besides the LC and LS, i think of them as toyotas with some sprinkles on top. it's the same mistake acura made.
years ago, when i thought of lexus, i though of exquisitely designed and made vehicles that one aspires to. now, besides the LC and LS, i think of them as toyotas with some sprinkles on top. it's the same mistake acura made.Genesis, on the other hand, today, even if not perfect, reminds me of the way that Lexus was in the 1990s....except with even better interiors.
07-02-20, 10:11 AM
#430
Lexus Fanatic
It makes prefect sense.
If, by "new", you mean first-year production, yes, more errors are likely to be made, both by humans and robot-machines. It takes actual production (or pre-production) results to determine if the robots are programmed correctly, panel-fits/gaps are of the intended size, wires and electronic-components are being attached/assembled properly, oil-use tests done to see if piston-ring and valve-clearances are proper, etc...the list is endless. Obviously, if and when the machines are working properly, human-endurance/fatigue will be less of a factor.
In most cases, you will know when you are.
I think I just explained why.
So overworked OT workers will only make mistakes on "new" car? How on earth can that be?
Either you are tired and overworked, or you are not.
What does experience have to do with anything? Bolting on a car part is the same task, no matter what the car is. If the person doing it is too tired, then the impact is the same no matter what car they are working on.
Last edited by mmarshall; 07-02-20 at 02:53 PM.
07-02-20, 10:44 AM
#431
Thats like saying with the G90 Hyundai is trying to capture Sonata buyers and thats just silly. Nobody goes from a $32,000 loaded Sonata straight to a $75,000 G90. They didn't go from a $19,000 Camry to a $40,000+ LS400 either. I would say Genesis isn't really looking for move up Hyundai owners either...
07-02-20, 01:40 PM
#433
Lexus Test Driver
Personally I would NOT consider any Genesis unless it was significantly cheaper than a comparable BMW/MB product to lease.
I do appreciate their efforts and doing the right way with proper engineering (RWD platforms) and focus on exterior/interior styling. I was really impressed by the G90.
One thing which is different with Koreans compared to Japanese is they hired some top ppl from German brands and actually give them control in developing and engineering the vehicles. Toyota Japan doesn’t even allow Lexus to operate on its own let alone have outsiders in high position.
I do appreciate their efforts and doing the right way with proper engineering (RWD platforms) and focus on exterior/interior styling. I was really impressed by the G90.
One thing which is different with Koreans compared to Japanese is they hired some top ppl from German brands and actually give them control in developing and engineering the vehicles. Toyota Japan doesn’t even allow Lexus to operate on its own let alone have outsiders in high position.
07-02-20, 03:35 PM
#434
Lexus Fanatic
While I agree with that, I also believe that those who shop for a Genesis product currently would also not be shy of looking at the Hyundai offerings, since they're in the same building right now due to lack of proper dealerships. That means that the most dangerous competitor to the GV80 won't be the RX or the Germans- it'll be the Hyundai Palisade a few feet away from the GV80. It's more spacious, has a similar level of features, also has a great interior, and most importantly- it's cheaper. Does that sound familiar? It's the dilemma of the ES existing that resulted in cannibalizing sales of the GS since its inception. I think the GV80 will be successful regardless, but there is no denying that the Palisade is a threat.
07-03-20, 03:10 AM
#435
New interview with the Genesis CEO, preorders for the GV80 jumped up to 13,100 vehicles.
That aside, Genesis seems to be surviving the pandemic. Good to see that the botched dealership network was mentioned as well.
That aside, Genesis seems to be surviving the pandemic. Good to see that the botched dealership network was mentioned as well.
Pandemic Be Damned – Genesis Sees a Silver Lining in the Clouded U.S. Car Market
Despite sales being off by nearly 25%, Genesis and its sedan-only line-up is outperforming the segment.It’s been a tough year for the U.S. auto industry, and few expect to see a real recovery anytime soon. The overall market is expected to tumble by as much as 25% this year, with no segment harder hit than luxury sedans.
Despite the weak numbers, Mark del Rosso is firmly focused on the upside. The CEO of Genesis Motors North America is quick to note that the Korean luxury brand has outperformed most of its high-line rivals, despite the fact that its total sales were off 24.7% for the first six months of the year.
“In the three segments in which Genesis currently competes, those are the three segments that are down the most in the entire industry but, from a share point of view, we’re up,” del Rosso said during an interview with TheDetroitBureau.com.
It might sound like the Genesis CEO is trying to make lemonade out of lemons, but a quick look at the numbers backs him up. BMW, for example, saw U.S. sales tumble 28.4% for the first half of 2020 – and when you look at just the passenger car side of its line-up, the decline was a stiff 31.6%.
Demand for the new Genesis G90 actually was up by 22.2% through the end of June, one of the rare luxury sedans to land in positive territory, certainly since nationwide lockdowns to deal with the coronavirus began in March.
All told, American luxury buyers bought 7,540 vehicles from Genesis during the half-year, down from 10,007 during the same period in 2019.
“That’s low volume,” said Stephanie Brinley, principal automotive analyst with IHS Markit. “They still have a long way to go, but they are moving in the right direction.”
If anything, Genesis was showing clearly positive growth ahead of the pandemic after struggling during the first few years after the brand was spun off from mainstream brand Hyundai. Complicating matters, the company officials reversed course shortly after that spinoff, deciding that the marque needed its own, standalone showrooms, rather than sharing space with Hyundai.
The increase in 2019 sales, and the reasonably good numbers this year, said Brinley, suggests the brand’s slow and initially wobbly start had “more to do with not having their dealer network in place, rather than a lack of interest in their products. It suggests there is some upside potential.”
The real test of CEO del Rosso’s optimism will come in 2021, Genesis finally rolling out its first SUV, an absolute essential in today’s ute-crazed market. The new GV80 already appears to be connecting with potential buyers, Genesis reporting it already has logged 13,100 advance reservations. Even if a fraction of those eventually translate into sales, that would make the midsize model, by far, the brand’s best seller.
“There definitely was a gap in the portfolio,” acknowledged del Rosso. “We needed an SUV.”
And Genesis isn’t planning to wait long to dive even deeper into the SUV pool, with a second model already well into development. Though company officials won’t provide details, the next ute is expected to be a compact that will be dubbed the GV70.
As for timing, del Rosso told TheDetroitBureau.com that he expects to have fully six models in the line-up “by the end of 2021” calendar year. With three sedans, the GV70 and GV80 SUVs, that would leave a gap for yet another product and, he confirmed, it will be a battery-electric model. Other company insiders previously said, on background, that the BEV will also be a sport utility, though specifics remain cloudy.
Longer term, Genesis is widely expected to add even more product, perhaps a competitor to the likes of the Mercedes-Benz GLS or Cadillac Escalade that would be dubbed the GV90. And, with parent Hyundai a serious proponent of fuel-cell technology, something powered by hydrogen is believed to be in the works. Notably, the original concept version of the GV80 was powered by a fuel-cell/battery hybrid system.
One thing Genesis officials have made clear from the start is that they see their push into the luxury market as a long-term play and analyst Brinley agrees, forecasting it will take “10 to 15 years” for the marque to give a truly serious challenge to global competitors like BMW, Mercedes and Lexus.
New product clearly will help, del Rosso underscored, but that’s just one critical element of the Genesis strategy. Like its plebian sibling, the automaker has made a push to improve quality and reliability and has become a routine chart-topper, this year coming in fourth overall, and the top-ranked luxury brand, on the J.D. Power Initial Quality Study.
Genesis has also been on the leading edge of the curve when it comes to shifting to more customer-focused sales and service “experiences,” including pickup and delivery for maintenance and repairs. About 12% of Genesis vehicles were purchased entirely online so far this year, said del Rosso, and 7% were delivered to a customer’s home, rather than requiring them to come to the showroom.
Add aggressive marketing – like the well-received Super Bowl spot featuring the husband-and-wife team of John Legend and Chrissy Teigen, and “our young brand has made enormous strides in awareness and consideration,” said del Rosso.
If all goes according to plan, that could play out perfectly as Genesis rolls out the GV80 and then gets ready to bring even more SUVs into its line-up, better positioning itself for today’s market.
Despite the weak numbers, Mark del Rosso is firmly focused on the upside. The CEO of Genesis Motors North America is quick to note that the Korean luxury brand has outperformed most of its high-line rivals, despite the fact that its total sales were off 24.7% for the first six months of the year.
“In the three segments in which Genesis currently competes, those are the three segments that are down the most in the entire industry but, from a share point of view, we’re up,” del Rosso said during an interview with TheDetroitBureau.com.
It might sound like the Genesis CEO is trying to make lemonade out of lemons, but a quick look at the numbers backs him up. BMW, for example, saw U.S. sales tumble 28.4% for the first half of 2020 – and when you look at just the passenger car side of its line-up, the decline was a stiff 31.6%.
Demand for the new Genesis G90 actually was up by 22.2% through the end of June, one of the rare luxury sedans to land in positive territory, certainly since nationwide lockdowns to deal with the coronavirus began in March.
All told, American luxury buyers bought 7,540 vehicles from Genesis during the half-year, down from 10,007 during the same period in 2019.
“That’s low volume,” said Stephanie Brinley, principal automotive analyst with IHS Markit. “They still have a long way to go, but they are moving in the right direction.”
If anything, Genesis was showing clearly positive growth ahead of the pandemic after struggling during the first few years after the brand was spun off from mainstream brand Hyundai. Complicating matters, the company officials reversed course shortly after that spinoff, deciding that the marque needed its own, standalone showrooms, rather than sharing space with Hyundai.
The increase in 2019 sales, and the reasonably good numbers this year, said Brinley, suggests the brand’s slow and initially wobbly start had “more to do with not having their dealer network in place, rather than a lack of interest in their products. It suggests there is some upside potential.”
The real test of CEO del Rosso’s optimism will come in 2021, Genesis finally rolling out its first SUV, an absolute essential in today’s ute-crazed market. The new GV80 already appears to be connecting with potential buyers, Genesis reporting it already has logged 13,100 advance reservations. Even if a fraction of those eventually translate into sales, that would make the midsize model, by far, the brand’s best seller.
“There definitely was a gap in the portfolio,” acknowledged del Rosso. “We needed an SUV.”
And Genesis isn’t planning to wait long to dive even deeper into the SUV pool, with a second model already well into development. Though company officials won’t provide details, the next ute is expected to be a compact that will be dubbed the GV70.
As for timing, del Rosso told TheDetroitBureau.com that he expects to have fully six models in the line-up “by the end of 2021” calendar year. With three sedans, the GV70 and GV80 SUVs, that would leave a gap for yet another product and, he confirmed, it will be a battery-electric model. Other company insiders previously said, on background, that the BEV will also be a sport utility, though specifics remain cloudy.
Longer term, Genesis is widely expected to add even more product, perhaps a competitor to the likes of the Mercedes-Benz GLS or Cadillac Escalade that would be dubbed the GV90. And, with parent Hyundai a serious proponent of fuel-cell technology, something powered by hydrogen is believed to be in the works. Notably, the original concept version of the GV80 was powered by a fuel-cell/battery hybrid system.
One thing Genesis officials have made clear from the start is that they see their push into the luxury market as a long-term play and analyst Brinley agrees, forecasting it will take “10 to 15 years” for the marque to give a truly serious challenge to global competitors like BMW, Mercedes and Lexus.
New product clearly will help, del Rosso underscored, but that’s just one critical element of the Genesis strategy. Like its plebian sibling, the automaker has made a push to improve quality and reliability and has become a routine chart-topper, this year coming in fourth overall, and the top-ranked luxury brand, on the J.D. Power Initial Quality Study.
Genesis has also been on the leading edge of the curve when it comes to shifting to more customer-focused sales and service “experiences,” including pickup and delivery for maintenance and repairs. About 12% of Genesis vehicles were purchased entirely online so far this year, said del Rosso, and 7% were delivered to a customer’s home, rather than requiring them to come to the showroom.
Add aggressive marketing – like the well-received Super Bowl spot featuring the husband-and-wife team of John Legend and Chrissy Teigen, and “our young brand has made enormous strides in awareness and consideration,” said del Rosso.
If all goes according to plan, that could play out perfectly as Genesis rolls out the GV80 and then gets ready to bring even more SUVs into its line-up, better positioning itself for today’s market.