Lexus ES350 hits a A+ in ride and cabin noise in A on A
04-05-19, 12:33 PM
#106
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
I have a theory about this car, supported only by long experience with Toyota. Management tolerated above-the-line development and material costs on this iteration because of its being the first ES to be sold in Japan, after years of it being mostly a North American product. It seems clear that Lexus’s product development team were rising to home market expectations.
In other words, the ES feels over-engineered, particularly in the realm of chassis construction. What the hell did they put in this thing? Oh, I see: extensive laser screw-welding; twice as much structure adhesive as before; elaborate structural reinforcement at the front strut towers; a third more sound deadening insulation, covering 93 per cent of the floor. Our test car also sported the 18-inch wheels with noise-reducing profiles. So, to recap, dead quiet, solid as a rock.
In other words, the ES feels over-engineered, particularly in the realm of chassis construction. What the hell did they put in this thing? Oh, I see: extensive laser screw-welding; twice as much structure adhesive as before; elaborate structural reinforcement at the front strut towers; a third more sound deadening insulation, covering 93 per cent of the floor. Our test car also sported the 18-inch wheels with noise-reducing profiles. So, to recap, dead quiet, solid as a rock.
04-05-19, 01:11 PM
#107
Pole Position
Been driving an ES loaner for the last few days - car rides very nice. It actually borders on being semi-fun to drive in Sport mode (keep in mind I own an LS which is not nimble in any respect). Took me a while to get used to how the touch pad and menu works, especially for controlling satellite radio, but no major complaints about any aspect of the car. Feels like the best ES I have been in as a driver or passenger in many years.
04-05-19, 01:36 PM
#108
Lexus Fanatic
I always like to hear that the new version has some engineering advancements and something is improved structurally. These are things that are not necessarily selling points, implying they did it because it was possible...I'll be honest I don't know what "extensive laser screw-welding" actually is, but it sounded pretty da** good!
04-05-19, 01:57 PM
#109
drives cars
Been driving an ES loaner for the last few days - car rides very nice. It actually borders on being semi-fun to drive in Sport mode (keep in mind I own an LS which is not nimble in any respect). Took me a while to get used to how the touch pad and menu works, especially for controlling satellite radio, but no major complaints about any aspect of the car. Feels like the best ES I have been in as a driver or passenger in many years.
However, I had the BASE model - no nav, smaller screen. I think the steering is actually great in and of itself - and I wouldn't want to make the body roll any less because of how well it rides. But the engine was surprisingly punchy, I'll give it that.
04-05-19, 02:11 PM
#110
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
I always like to hear that the new version has some engineering advancements and something is improved structurally. These are things that are not necessarily selling points, implying they did it because it was possible...I'll be honest I don't know what "extensive laser screw-welding" actually is, but it sounded pretty da** good!
04-05-19, 02:12 PM
#111
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
04-05-19, 02:46 PM
#112
This is the most overachieving car I’ve driven lately, the most surprising, the one whose refinement and value for money will give snobby Mercedes and Audi intenders the longest pause.
The seventh-generation ES is longer, wider and lower than the outgoing model, over a wheelbase 5cm longer. The rejigging of dimensions has cascading effects, both practical and poetic. It made the chassis engineers’ job that much easier, improving the platform’s roll resistance and drivability without compromising the ride quality, which is super-bueno deluxe. The extra length also gives more rear legroom without compromising boot space; it’s large enough to support a family trip to a wedding requiring the wardrobe changes of a Lady Gaga show.
On this more ample canvas, the stylists composed a compelling shape of light and shadow, bulge and hollow, rake and curve, and above all shameless amounts of brightwork. The ES now enjoys some of the presence and formality of Lexus’s grand piano, the LS 500.
I have a theory about this car, supported only by long experience with Toyota. Management tolerated above-the-line development and material costs on this iteration because of its being the first ES to be sold in Japan, after years of it being mostly a North American product. It seems clear that Lexus’s product development team were rising to home market expectations.
In other words, the ES feels over-engineered, particularly in the realm of chassis construction. What the hell did they put in this thing? Oh, I see: extensive laser screw-welding; twice as much structure adhesive as before; elaborate structural reinforcement at the front strut towers; a third more sound deadening insulation, covering 93 per cent of the floor. Our test car also sported the 18-inch wheels with noise-reducing profiles. So, to recap, dead quiet, solid as a rock.
The ES is also resolutely a front-drive car, with almost 60 per cent of the weight on the front wheels. No matter what engine Toyota puts in it, the ES will never be a sports sedan, running nose-to-tail with a BMW 5. Anywhere outside a racetrack, though, the BMW’s premium seems harder to fathom.
The seventh-generation ES is longer, wider and lower than the outgoing model, over a wheelbase 5cm longer. The rejigging of dimensions has cascading effects, both practical and poetic. It made the chassis engineers’ job that much easier, improving the platform’s roll resistance and drivability without compromising the ride quality, which is super-bueno deluxe. The extra length also gives more rear legroom without compromising boot space; it’s large enough to support a family trip to a wedding requiring the wardrobe changes of a Lady Gaga show.
On this more ample canvas, the stylists composed a compelling shape of light and shadow, bulge and hollow, rake and curve, and above all shameless amounts of brightwork. The ES now enjoys some of the presence and formality of Lexus’s grand piano, the LS 500.
I have a theory about this car, supported only by long experience with Toyota. Management tolerated above-the-line development and material costs on this iteration because of its being the first ES to be sold in Japan, after years of it being mostly a North American product. It seems clear that Lexus’s product development team were rising to home market expectations.
In other words, the ES feels over-engineered, particularly in the realm of chassis construction. What the hell did they put in this thing? Oh, I see: extensive laser screw-welding; twice as much structure adhesive as before; elaborate structural reinforcement at the front strut towers; a third more sound deadening insulation, covering 93 per cent of the floor. Our test car also sported the 18-inch wheels with noise-reducing profiles. So, to recap, dead quiet, solid as a rock.
The ES is also resolutely a front-drive car, with almost 60 per cent of the weight on the front wheels. No matter what engine Toyota puts in it, the ES will never be a sports sedan, running nose-to-tail with a BMW 5. Anywhere outside a racetrack, though, the BMW’s premium seems harder to fathom.
04-05-19, 02:49 PM
#113
drives cars
Last edited by arentz07; 04-07-19 at 07:56 PM.
04-05-19, 03:37 PM
#114
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
I don’t think this is true. I doubt Lincoln is subsidizing the gas version. Toyota has a very good brand image, the hybrid image is superb, good enough that they can charge more for a hybrid system that is outdated and mediocre at best. Let’s think for a second, more money gets you less HP, less cylinders, less acceleration, less torque, less 0-60 performance, less braking performance (numbers from C & D, more curb weight, an outdated hybrid battery (note: the Prius has lithium battery) and an absence of a plug-in option (note: Prius has this option).
04-05-19, 06:34 PM
#115
Lexus Champion
I don’t think this is true. I doubt Lincoln is subsidizing the gas version. Toyota has a very good brand image, the hybrid image is superb, good enough that they can charge more for a hybrid system that is outdated and mediocre at best. Let’s think for a second, more money gets you less HP, less cylinders, less acceleration, less torque, less 0-60 performance, less braking performance (numbers from C & D, more curb weight, an outdated hybrid battery (note: the Prius has lithium battery) and an absence of a plug-in option (note: Prius has this option).
Hybrid models, whether they are built by Ford (Lincoln) or Toyota (Lexus), cost more to produce because they have 2 parallel powertrains, one gasoline and the other electric; the large hybrid battery itself costs a lot. We have had this discussion (many times) before.
I will say no more because I know from history of this topic that I am trying to explain hybrid operation to someone who neither cares to understand how hybrids work nor likes hybrids. It is like talking to a stone wall.
04-05-19, 06:46 PM
#116
Lexus Champion
I always like to hear that the new version has some engineering advancements and something is improved structurally. These are things that are not necessarily selling points, implying they did it because it was possible...I'll be honest I don't know what "extensive laser screw-welding" actually is, but it sounded pretty da** good!
Along with innovations such as advanced body adhesives, Lexus has developed a new production process called laser screw welding used in the construction of many of its current models, including the new RC F sports car, NX crossover, IS sports saloon, and the recently unveiled GS F performance saloon.
Laser screw welding supplements traditional spot-welding during the manufacture of the chassis and body of these Lexus vehicles, increasing body rigidity and strengthening the chassis to provide greater handling dynamics and ride comfort.
Conventional resistance spot welding applies an electrical arc to layers of sheet metal, heating them to the point where they weld together. The downside is that the heat generated can cause the metal panels to deform or distort, so to prevent this happening automakers have to space spot welds apart at regular intervals. It’s also time-consuming, with each spot weld taking two or three seconds to complete.
In contrast, laser screw welding uses a laser to weld the sheet metal panels together, but is much faster (as seen in the video above) and generates so little heat that there aren’t any issues with heat distortion. As a result, Lexus’ laser screw welding technique can be used to, in effect, fill in the gaps between conventional spot welds, thereby increasing the rigidity and strength of the joint between the panels. Conventional welds can be spaced further apart too, decreasing the risk of heat distortion further.
Other benefits include the ability to perform one-sided welds on areas such as the outside of box section parts like door and roof pillars – indeed, laser screw welding is often utilised around front and rear door openings – and the fact that the strength and quality of the finished weld is more consistent than other laser welding methods, particularly where multiple layers are welded together.
Lastly, laser screw welding brings advantages to Lexus’ production efficiency and carbon dioxide emissions. As the same laser screw welding process can be used for both steel-to-steel and aluminium-to-aluminium fabrication, two existing production lines can be consolidated to a single line for vehicles of both body types, reducing production processes by up to 40%. The unique welding method will also help to reduce carbon emissions by up to 50%.
Laser screw welding supplements traditional spot-welding during the manufacture of the chassis and body of these Lexus vehicles, increasing body rigidity and strengthening the chassis to provide greater handling dynamics and ride comfort.
Conventional resistance spot welding applies an electrical arc to layers of sheet metal, heating them to the point where they weld together. The downside is that the heat generated can cause the metal panels to deform or distort, so to prevent this happening automakers have to space spot welds apart at regular intervals. It’s also time-consuming, with each spot weld taking two or three seconds to complete.
In contrast, laser screw welding uses a laser to weld the sheet metal panels together, but is much faster (as seen in the video above) and generates so little heat that there aren’t any issues with heat distortion. As a result, Lexus’ laser screw welding technique can be used to, in effect, fill in the gaps between conventional spot welds, thereby increasing the rigidity and strength of the joint between the panels. Conventional welds can be spaced further apart too, decreasing the risk of heat distortion further.
Other benefits include the ability to perform one-sided welds on areas such as the outside of box section parts like door and roof pillars – indeed, laser screw welding is often utilised around front and rear door openings – and the fact that the strength and quality of the finished weld is more consistent than other laser welding methods, particularly where multiple layers are welded together.
Lastly, laser screw welding brings advantages to Lexus’ production efficiency and carbon dioxide emissions. As the same laser screw welding process can be used for both steel-to-steel and aluminium-to-aluminium fabrication, two existing production lines can be consolidated to a single line for vehicles of both body types, reducing production processes by up to 40%. The unique welding method will also help to reduce carbon emissions by up to 50%.
04-05-19, 08:17 PM
#117
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
ps. My criticism of the Lexus hybrid packaging is only really of the ESh. All the other gas vs hybrids of Toyota or Lexus I really have no issues with. $47,000 for a 215hp luxury sedan is a very hard pill to swallow, crazy to think how much someone might pay for a loaded version.
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 04-06-19 at 05:33 AM.
04-06-19, 07:12 AM
#118
Lexus Fanatic
The ES is also resolutely a front-drive car, with almost 60 per cent of the weight on the front wheels. No matter what engine Toyota puts in it, the ES will never be a sports sedan, running nose-to-tail with a BMW 5. Anywhere outside a racetrack, though, the BMW’s premium seems harder to fathom.
04-06-19, 08:05 AM
#119
The ES is also resolutely a front-drive car, with almost 60 per cent of the weight on the front wheels. No matter what engine Toyota puts in it, the ES will never be a sports sedan, running nose-to-tail with a BMW 5. Anywhere outside a racetrack, though, the BMW’s premium seems harder to fathom.
Even RWD GS has as much as 57% weight on front wheels.
5 Series has something like 53% weight on front wheels already.
04-08-19, 07:31 AM
#120
Pole Position
I had the loaner for 4 days - really not much I disliked. I appeared to have the base model as I didn't even see a button or way to turn on heated/cooled seats. The car drove very well, everything felt very "tight" and insulated, interior is well thought out. I'm sure the styling is not everyone's cup of tea but I like it and was overall impressed.