Toyota Cost Cutting, really grinding my gears.
02-07-19, 06:18 AM
#106
Lexus Fanatic
Looks like E90 3-Series BMWs did have a divider, interestingly:
https://www.ebay.com/i/132484373885?chn=ps
https://www.ebay.com/i/132484373885?chn=ps
edit Which electric mirror switch stops working first? Yes, the Lexus. Toyota cost cutting was not a recent development, it existed in 2001, on the LS. I own both of the above vehicles so it's not what I've heard, it's what I've experienced and supported by the 3rd gen forum
Which autodim sideview mirror malfunctions first? Uh huh, the Lexus! But the mirror glass only lists for $388.55, part alone, so no worries! lol (just illustrating there are Toyota parts that are out of whack and more expensive than Germans--brake sensor wires for example, $120 v. $32)
Last edited by Johnhav430; 02-07-19 at 06:24 AM.
02-07-19, 06:38 AM
#107
Super Moderator
This is where they were located on my E46:
Last edited by geko29; 02-07-19 at 06:46 AM.
02-07-19, 07:00 AM
#108
Lexus Champion
I have the same gripe with newer BMWs. For years they've had what I consider the best cruise control implementation, with a stalk below the turn signal stalk. Push away from you to go faster, pull towards you to slow down, up or down to cancel, push the button on the end to resume. In more recent models, they've gone to the steering-wheel buttons like everyone else, a definite step backwards.
02-07-19, 07:21 AM
#110
Lexus Fanatic
I have the same gripe with newer BMWs. For years they've had what I consider the best cruise control implementation, with a stalk below the turn signal stalk. Push away from you to go faster, pull towards you to slow down, up or down to cancel, push the button on the end to resume. In more recent models, they've gone to the steering-wheel buttons like everyone else, a definite step backwards.
as tex2670 noted, older BMWs have a divider, but much larger than we're discussing here--it's about 8" wide and is called a shifter. This is where they were located on my E46:
as tex2670 noted, older BMWs have a divider, but much larger than we're discussing here--it's about 8" wide and is called a shifter.
This is where they were located on my E46:edit p.s. I have experienced this phenom on other forums where threads relating to the mfg. who is the subject of the forum itself, turns to knocking BMW. It's ok I think since I own one...
Last edited by bitkahuna; 02-07-19 at 09:49 AM.
02-07-19, 08:12 AM
#111
Lexus Fanatic
I have the same gripe with newer BMWs. For years they've had what I consider the best cruise control implementation, with a stalk below the turn signal stalk. Push away from you to go faster, pull towards you to slow down, up or down to cancel, push the button on the end to resume. In more recent models, they've gone to the steering-wheel buttons like everyone else, a definite step backwards.
as tex2670 noted, older BMWs have a divider, but much larger than we're discussing here--it's about 8" wide and is called a shifter. This is where they were located on my E46:
as tex2670 noted, older BMWs have a divider, but much larger than we're discussing here--it's about 8" wide and is called a shifter.
This is where they were located on my E46:Last edited by bitkahuna; 02-07-19 at 09:49 AM.
02-07-19, 09:17 AM
#112
Super Moderator
I'm an owner as well, and have been daily driving a 3-series (first an E46 323i, now an E90 335d) for twenty years now. Was not meaning to head that way, just noting that BMW made the same (IMO foolish) decision on cruise control that Lexus did.
02-07-19, 10:58 AM
#113
Lexus Fanatic
I do think in general all cos. have been cutting costs and not just Toyota. But there are traces of it all the way back to 2001 imho with Toyota. For me, BMW started 2009 or so as can be seen in the E9x's as they went from 2006 to 2007 to 2008 to 2009....
02-07-19, 11:37 AM
#114
Lexus Champion
I'm an engineer (now retired) and when I was working a often complained about the "bean counters". If they would just give us enough money we could make things so much better. As I moved into management, I began to realize that they were important to our ability to make money on our products. We could build the "perfect" product made of unobtainium but no one could afford to buy it and we would be out of business. Cost cutting (or cost control) is critical to the profitability of something as high volume as mass production cars and trucks. If you can save $1 per F150 truck, that amounts to almost $1,000,000 profit each year. I don't blame Toyota for trying to save money on each unit, it just makes them less expensive to the consumer. After all, the object of a business is to make a profit, not just to sell cars. There is obviously a line where too cheap won't sell because competitors are better. Honda found this out a few years ago with the Civic. For me, Toyota and Lexus do pretty well at providing value in their products and their continued sales success shows it. GM, on the other hand, missed the target. The CT6 is a brilliant engineering accomplishment but the cost to design and build it make it unprofitable to sell. How about just a little love for the bean counters?
02-07-19, 12:50 PM
#115
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
As for ripping on bean counters. I think something has to be said about cost cutting from a consumers perspective, we are the people that determine is something is going to sell or work. Yes, it does get tiring if there is an agenda behind it. However if you are as old as I am, you might remember the great decline of General Motors, they had some very, very good products with excellent thought out details and great features. They fell apart once the bean counters and only corporate profits became the priority. So Toyota can easily become the new GM is people are not watching.
For modern day Toyota/Lexus models, if there was ever a time if I questioned Toyota's direction, I am starting to think more and more of late. There are some things lately I have not loved about the brand. Mostly, it revolves around user experience.
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 02-07-19 at 12:56 PM.
02-07-19, 12:58 PM
#116
Lexus Champion
My comments in this thread were not to rip into bean counting. My thread was an honest thread from a reaction from what my parents had said about opening both windows with one press, I hand't thought anything of it until we were at the car park, I never noticed it on the Prius and that model has been out with those switches for years now. I believe the spacer is there to prevent exactly what I am saying is happening, I cannot open both windows with my cars with one press, I can with my parents Avalon. To me, this was cost cutting move by Toyota as the spacer obviously serves some sort of purpose. If people want to call it a styling reason, that is fine however I would remind that nobody ever mentioned any of this unit I started this thread.
As for ripping on bean counters. I think something has to be said about cost cutting from a consumers perspective, we are the people that determine is something is going to sell or work. Yes, it does get tiring if there is an agenda behind it. However if you are as old as I am, you might remember the great decline of General Motors, they had some very, very good products with excellent thought out details and great features. They fell apart once the bean counters and only corporate profits became the priority. So Toyota can easily become the new GM is people are not watching.
For modern day Toyota/Lexus models, if there was ever a time if I questioned Toyota's direction, I am starting to think more and more of late. There are some things lately I have not loved about the brand.
As for ripping on bean counters. I think something has to be said about cost cutting from a consumers perspective, we are the people that determine is something is going to sell or work. Yes, it does get tiring if there is an agenda behind it. However if you are as old as I am, you might remember the great decline of General Motors, they had some very, very good products with excellent thought out details and great features. They fell apart once the bean counters and only corporate profits became the priority. So Toyota can easily become the new GM is people are not watching.
For modern day Toyota/Lexus models, if there was ever a time if I questioned Toyota's direction, I am starting to think more and more of late. There are some things lately I have not loved about the brand.
Yes, there are often downsides, but many times they are the ones keeping these products affordable, and very often there may be a noticeable cut somewhere which allowed an improvement somewhere else. It's a big picture thing.
02-07-19, 01:05 PM
#117
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
My comments were not directed at you. But we often read on here about how everything that someone doesn't like is the result of "the bean counters". My point is to simply remember that resources are not unlimited. There is a reason for counting the beans. Yes, there are often downsides, but many times they are the ones keeping these products affordable, and very often there may be a noticeable cut somewhere which allowed an improvement somewhere else. It's a big picture thing.
Yes, there are often downsides, but many times they are the ones keeping these products affordable, and very often there may be a noticeable cut somewhere which allowed an improvement somewhere else. It's a big picture thing.If you saw in my very first post in this thread, I said that I find more value in the criticism of the a Toyota or Lexus model than the actual praise.
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 02-07-19 at 01:14 PM.
02-07-19, 01:16 PM
#118
Lexus Fanatic
My comments were not directed at you. But we often read on here about how everything that someone doesn't like is the result of "the bean counters". My point is to simply remember that resources are not unlimited. There is a reason for counting the beans. Yes, there are often downsides, but many times they are the ones keeping these products affordable, and very often there may be a noticeable cut somewhere which allowed an improvement somewhere else. It's a big picture thing.
Yes, there are often downsides, but many times they are the ones keeping these products affordable, and very often there may be a noticeable cut somewhere which allowed an improvement somewhere else. It's a big picture thing.
02-08-19, 09:24 AM
#119
Dysfunctional Veteran
My new Ram has a braille-type raised dot on the drivers side window switch to indicate to your hand that you are on the right switch. I thought this was a thing in all cars.
02-08-19, 09:27 AM
#120
Lexus Champion