Luxury sedan sales for March 2019
04-10-19, 05:59 PM
#152
Lexus Fanatic
I don’t agree Bob04 is a troll. It is an interesting discussion. For a new launch, the Ls500 is a disaster, but if worldwide sales are holding well, the it might be deemed a success
04-10-19, 06:53 PM
#153
Lexus Fanatic
Perhaps so, but much of Bob and Pete say is correct. I have no problem with repetition if people know what they are talking about. That's why I can sit down and listen to Alex Dykes (Alex on Autos) drone on and on like he tends to do....he may have a monotonous voice, but, in his reviews, I know I'm getting a 98 or 99% factual review.
04-10-19, 06:58 PM
#154
Lexus Fanatic
Perhaps so, but much of Bob and Pete say is correct. I have no problem with repetition if people know what they are talking about. That's why I can sit down and listen to Alex Dykes (Alex on Autos) drone on and on like he tends to do....he may have a monotonous voice, but, in his reviews, I know I'm getting a 98 or 99% factual review.
04-10-19, 07:01 PM
#155
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
I currently own 3 Lexus autos, and have owned 4 LSs. I think I earned the right to have an opinion and should be able to express it just like the people who constantly gloat over it.
04-10-19, 07:51 PM
#158
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
I think it would be interesting to see the totals listed in the original post every month with a plus/minus difference from the previous month/year. Maybe even add in the big luxury SUV totals. With gas prices going up, we might see another shift in the market in the coming months/years.
04-10-19, 08:03 PM
#159
Lexus Fanatic
I think it would be interesting to see the totals listed in the original post every month with a plus/minus difference from the previous month/year. Maybe even add in the big luxury SUV totals. With gas prices going up, we might see another shift in the market in the coming months/years.
04-10-19, 08:11 PM
#160
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
Definitely better than in the past. The X7 is 20/25 while the 7 sedan is 21/29. That's pretty impressive.
04-10-19, 09:22 PM
#161
Sorry Jill, I could not find worldwide LS sales for you; it is probably a closely guarded secret.
However, are full size luxury sedan sales diminishing?
Well not for the "midsize" luxury sedan market.
Look at E Class below.
1995 24,915 All new W210
1996 37,956
1997 42,883
1998 47,563
1999 50,214 Peak annual sales.
2000 49,592
2001 44,445
2002 42,598 All new W211
2003 55,681
2004 58,954 Peak annual sales!
2005 50,383
2006 50,195
2007 48,950
2008 38,576
2009 43,072 All new W212
2010 60,922
2011 62,736
2012 65,171
2013 69,803 Peak annual sales.
2014 66,400
2015 49,736
2016 46,740 All new W213
2017 49,473
2018 45,481
Thus, the peak annual sales for the E Class is getting higher and higher! Who ever said that midsize luxury sedan sales were diminishing to SUV's?
There is absolutely NO reason for the 4GS base and luxury models to be fitted with firm seats and firm spring and damper rates, with louder than normal noise.
Fittingly, by 2016 the midlife refreshed 4.5GS was made smoother and quieter.
The sporting luxury front mid-engined 5LS was already approved, so we can only wait for the midlife refreshed 5.5LS.
When a company continually changes their sports-luxury suspension settings, you know they are confused.
I believe Toyota/Lexus will eventually settle down with a happy medium.
However, are full size luxury sedan sales diminishing?
Well not for the "midsize" luxury sedan market.
Look at E Class below.
1995 24,915 All new W210
1996 37,956
1997 42,883
1998 47,563
1999 50,214 Peak annual sales.
2000 49,592
2001 44,445
2002 42,598 All new W211
2003 55,681
2004 58,954 Peak annual sales!
2005 50,383
2006 50,195
2007 48,950
2008 38,576
2009 43,072 All new W212
2010 60,922
2011 62,736
2012 65,171
2013 69,803 Peak annual sales.
2014 66,400
2015 49,736
2016 46,740 All new W213
2017 49,473
2018 45,481
Thus, the peak annual sales for the E Class is getting higher and higher! Who ever said that midsize luxury sedan sales were diminishing to SUV's?
There is absolutely NO reason for the 4GS base and luxury models to be fitted with firm seats and firm spring and damper rates, with louder than normal noise.
Fittingly, by 2016 the midlife refreshed 4.5GS was made smoother and quieter.
The sporting luxury front mid-engined 5LS was already approved, so we can only wait for the midlife refreshed 5.5LS.
When a company continually changes their sports-luxury suspension settings, you know they are confused.
I believe Toyota/Lexus will eventually settle down with a happy medium.
04-11-19, 01:17 AM
#162
Intermediate
You did not explain why the old 2012-15 4GS, 2012-18 Camry/Avalon/6ES all became sportier, firmer and noisier, while the latest 4.5GS, 2018-24 Camry, Avalon and 7ES all reverted back to smoothness and quietness?
Likewise, Lexus realised that 5LS needed to be smoother and sexier, so a Click Bait LF-FC prototype was released at the 2015 Tokyo Motor Show below.
Unfortunately, the 5LS design with fussy 6-sided windows had already been approved before this smooth & sexy LF-FC prototype with slick 4-sided windows was released.
Hence the sales situation that the 5LS is in now.
Are you sure the new 5LS trunk is huge?
I thought the new 5LS trunk is absolutely tiny compared to previous LS's and the competition.
New 5LS has run flat tires with no spare whatsoever, yet the trunk is uncomfortably shallow and small. Not sure why?
I Googled 5LS trunk at a tiny 440 Liters to S Class trunk at 530 Liters [nearly 25% bigger]! And that looks about right to me from memory of 5LS in showroom.
Likewise, Lexus realised that 5LS needed to be smoother and sexier, so a Click Bait LF-FC prototype was released at the 2015 Tokyo Motor Show below.
Unfortunately, the 5LS design with fussy 6-sided windows had already been approved before this smooth & sexy LF-FC prototype with slick 4-sided windows was released.
Hence the sales situation that the 5LS is in now.
Are you sure the new 5LS trunk is huge?
I thought the new 5LS trunk is absolutely tiny compared to previous LS's and the competition.
New 5LS has run flat tires with no spare whatsoever, yet the trunk is uncomfortably shallow and small. Not sure why?
I Googled 5LS trunk at a tiny 440 Liters to S Class trunk at 530 Liters [nearly 25% bigger]! And that looks about right to me from memory of 5LS in showroom.
All this other stuff you talking about sounds like rambling at this point. Concept this, concept that. You all over the place. 6-sided windows... Fake news opinion.
In regards to trunk space, I am referring to the MT Comparison: https://www.motortrend.com/cars/gene...ontinental-30/
The LS has 17 cu ft trunk, the G90 at 15.7, and the 7 Series at 14.8. The S Class was not in the comparison and I am not surprised if it did have a bigger trunk than all of them. The S Class is bigger than the LS.
04-11-19, 01:22 AM
#163
Intermediate
I would expect the 5LS to outsell the 4LS in 2012 given that 2013 LS with a completely new interior and big refresh on exterior was on the horizon at the time. Lots of buyers considering 2012 either waited for the '13 to come out or they outright bought the '13. Same thing for 2017 LS. Can't explain 2014-2016. Perhaps the question is if the 5LS outsold the 2007 LS.
04-11-19, 01:25 AM
#164
Intermediate
It did start with the 4LS, given that it went about 4 years too long, but it will be amplified with the 5LS. Jan-Mar sales this year are the third lowest in the history of the LS. Only 2016 and 2017 were worse. And the 5LS is virtually brand new. Those were year 10 and 11 of the 4LS. And March 2016 actually outsold March 2019. That's really unbelievable at this point.
04-11-19, 01:33 AM
#165
Intermediate
4LS
2007 35,226 [Full Calendar Year Debut]
2008 20,255
2009 11,334
2010 11,675 [Minor Refresh]
2011 9,568
2012 8,860
2013 10,727 [Major Refresh]
2014 8,559
2015 7,165
2016 5,515
2017 4,094
S Class
2006 30,886 [Full Calendar Year Debut]
2007 26,081
2008 17,787
2009 11,199
2010 13,608 [Major Refresh]
2011 12,258
2012 12,587
BOTH 4LS and S Class sales dropped dramatically after 2008 - thanks to the Global Financial Crisis GFC.
In 2010, the S Class had a major refresh immediately to sustain itself only until 2012.
4LS didn't get a major refresh until a very late 2013, and by then it was way too late.
Furthermore, this very late 2013 4LS major refresh had to carry on for a whopping 5 years inclusive till 2017!
Thus 4LS has done very well considering the circumstances.
That the all new 2018 5LS outsold the ageing almost 12 year model cycle 4LS towards the end in 2012 & 2014-17 is totally unremarkable!
.
2007 35,226 [Full Calendar Year Debut]
2008 20,255
2009 11,334
2010 11,675 [Minor Refresh]
2011 9,568
2012 8,860
2013 10,727 [Major Refresh]
2014 8,559
2015 7,165
2016 5,515
2017 4,094
S Class
2006 30,886 [Full Calendar Year Debut]
2007 26,081
2008 17,787
2009 11,199
2010 13,608 [Major Refresh]
2011 12,258
2012 12,587
BOTH 4LS and S Class sales dropped dramatically after 2008 - thanks to the Global Financial Crisis GFC.
In 2010, the S Class had a major refresh immediately to sustain itself only until 2012.
4LS didn't get a major refresh until a very late 2013, and by then it was way too late.
Furthermore, this very late 2013 4LS major refresh had to carry on for a whopping 5 years inclusive till 2017!
Thus 4LS has done very well considering the circumstances.
That the all new 2018 5LS outsold the ageing almost 12 year model cycle 4LS towards the end in 2012 & 2014-17 is totally unremarkable!
.
I don't think you get it. The market has changed so much in such a short amount of time. The Model S and Panamera came in and took up most of the LS market share, while the S Class and 7 Series maintained. And the Model S and Panamera are sporty first before old school luxury.
Last edited by nicedude; 04-11-19 at 01:51 AM.