Haha. Either trolling or "old" people hating on change. Could be both. It sucks, but people need to move on.

 

And post it in the 5LS section so 5LS owners can provide their insights too. There is already a monthly sales thread on the top of the Car Chat section that you can contribute to too. Why not post specific full size luxury sedan sales in there?

 

This is what I mean by old people ramblings... We are talking about the LS and you keep bringing up the GS. Different size segment and you use one competitor to define the market. Really? First the S Class, now you rolling with the E Class. No mention of the 5 Series and the A6?

The GS has to compete with the ES. You know that right? And what is your obsession of making cars "smoother and quieter" during mid-cycle refreshes? What do you think Lexus is suppose to do? Make the car worse? Have you seen and driven the 2016 GS and compared it to the 2013? Really? Look at it and tell me you believe what you are typing...

 

One of my staff owns 2015 Camry V6, and coil springs much firmer than previous generations.
I have test driven latest Camry V6, and the spring rates are much more compliant than previously.
A number of CL members owned both original 4GS & midlife refteshed 4.5GS, and they say the updates feel at least a little more luxurious & softer than before.
Part numbers indicate that springs & dampers have indeed been changed.

Also the front mid-engine has robbed 5LS of cabin length.
I'm happy for 5LS to be even more firm, with even greater front mid-mounted engine - so long as 5LS is NOT another loss making white elephant like LFA, RC & LC.

You need to research more on the Lexus LF-FC show car.
It is said to be a clickbait for 5LS.
Although styling veey subjective, so I wouldn't get too hung up over subjectivity.

Run flats compromize 5LS ride.
Without a spare tire, not sure why 5LS trunk so shallow.

The official EPA trunk volumes:
S Class 18.8 cu ft
7 Series 18.2 cu ft
5LS 17 cu ft.

I don't understand the new EPA method of measuring, but all trunk volumes are now bigger.
Maybe the EPA now includes under floor compartment volume too?

https://www.cars.com/articles/2014/0...tch-the-truth/

In real life, 5LS trunk looks tiny compared to previous LS's & the competition.
.

 

S Class bounced back quicker thanks to major update in 2010.
4LS did not get major update till 2013.

S Class is the yardstick by which all others are compared to.

And why hasn't Model S, Panamera & Maserati Quattroporte been able to take S Class & 7 Series's market share?
.

 

Unless you like the car, you aren't really welcome to post in 5LS. Only repetitive positive comments are welcome.

 

So you own a 5LS?

 

Let me answer your question/s.

Because the 4GS is a good example of where President Akio made the 4GS firmer/noisier/sportier, but sales fell by a good 33% from the 3GS's debut of 33k units/yr in 2005 to 4GS's 22k units/yr in 2012 - and this happened at a time when E Class boosted its peak sales from 2004's 58k to 2013's 69k units - so no excuses for 4GS to fall in sales.

Even further proof is when a number of CL members who own both the original 4GS and the midlife refreshed 4.5GS say that the midlife refresh is a softer and more luxurious car.

First firming the original 4GS, and then softening the midlife updated 4.5GS shows that President Akio with his no more boring cars is confused about who he wants to be.

5LS has been approved for production long before Lexus reverted from no more boring firm loud sports back to soft comfort & quietness.

I have said before that I am more than happy for Lexus to turn the 5LS into an F1 car and market it to Generation Z rich infants & toddlers - as long as the 5LS is not another loss making white elephant. Do you know what's wrong with having a white elephant?
It's not about being old luxury or new sports, but about meeting the needs of consumers to sell in self-sufficient quantities - as opposed to making another loss as a white elefantus.
It is pointless to market to a group of infants/toddlers who refuse to purchase your white elephant in sufficient quantities...

.

 

Nobody is ever going to look at the LS like it's a Panamera or Jag. Now Lexus has redesigned it so that nobody looks at it like a S Class or 7 Series either. They basically created a compromise car with no identity. Outside of appliance like reliability, there is really nothing that it does that makes it a leader in anything. In an attempt to make everyone happy, they end up making almost nobody happy, and sales are showing it.

 

I disagree. I think there are people that will look at the new Ls as something as an alternative to the Panamera or Jag XJ. Add in the LC and Lexus is going after a different type/class of buyer. I still think we need to view the LS sales with all the world markets combined to understand a better picture.

This is a great line that it’s put. The press do love it, so they are happy

 

Most of the auto press (fortunately, not all of them), is almost always out of touch with the average vehicle-buyer of today. But Bob04 is correct.....the LS has departed from what was making at least a traditional group of core-buyers happy, and is now out in No-Man's Land.

 

Panamera sales actually went up during the release months of the LS. It actually outsold the LS in April 2018 when the LS should have been dominating sales with demand for a just released product. Panamera sales were up almost 1500 units from 2017 to 2018. 2018 was it's best sales year ever. Obviously the release of the LS500 had zero effect on it's sales.

Last month, it outsold the LS 703 to 457. And the Panamera is outselling the LS so far this year 1698 to 1404. Almost 100 units per month. That is unbelievable.

 

The people who defend the LS, would be curious how many of them %-wise have driven it?

Again, I draw an analogy. When I got the 1998 Maxima, I wanted the 2000 model to be a further step in the direction of being a legit 4DSC. Yet it was more of the same, really ugly from the rear, and ultimately the Maxima marque utterly collapsed as such in 2004. I would say it's 2004 for the LS. And we as human beings always seem to get into the "you only like the one you have and are sour grapes about the newer one." Not really I would say the 3rd gen Maxima was the best, it had an independent rear, was lighter, and yes timing belt on the V6 but maybe a better iteration of the motor (although they all went 400k+ like it's nothing).

On the LS? I would say 2nd gen or 3rd gen is best.

 

IMO, LS430...hands-down. Best combination of refinement, quality, comfort, and smoothness/quietness that Lexus has ever produced. It was almost guaranteed to lower one's blood pressure after a stressful day at work.

Steve and I often don't agree, but, given his position as an LS owner/leaser, and someone who thoroughly checked out both the LS460 and LS500, I think his opinion can be taken seriously. He chose the 460 after a thorough examination of the 500.

 

The Panamera sales numbers kind of shows that the direction Lexus is going with the LS is the right one.