Luxury sedan sales for March 2019
04-13-19, 05:42 AM
#241
Intermediate
I come from a Toyota family of cars. Old Camry as my daily driver. IS F for the weekend. Boring and sporty. I am trying to consolidate into one so the 5LS is interesting to me. Most likely will get a 4GS (5GS if it is not canceled) though as to not skip a step. In reality if Toyota offered a rwd sedan like the old Cressida I wouldn’t even look at a Lexus. I don’t need luxury. Well, I guess Toyota has the new Zupra...
04-13-19, 05:48 AM
#242
Lexus Fanatic
I come from a Toyota family of cars. Old Camry as my daily driver. IS F for the weekend. Boring and sporty. I am trying to consolidate into one so the 5LS is interesting to me. Most likely will get a 4GS (5GS if it is not canceled) though as to not skip a step. In reality if Toyota offered a rwd sedan like the old Cressida I wouldn’t even look at a Lexus. I don’t need luxury. Well, I guess Toyota has the new Zupra...
04-13-19, 05:30 PM
#243
As for Steve Harvey, I commend you for making the same points over and over again. Let me summarize your points for you so that I don't have to read about parts number changes for springs again. Haha.
Previous generation Camry and ES were harsh riding. The refresh tried to fix that and the current generation fixed it.
Current GS generation had the same issue, but the refresh tried to fix that.
The 5LS has the same issue and Lexus needs to fix it for the refresh. 5LS was made for millenials and they are not buying the 5LS.
"White elephants" are bad.
Lexus will become Infiniti and Acura if they don't fix everything above.
Blame all this on Akio for wanting everything sporty.
All your random ramblings aside, I will focus on the 5LS.
Previous generation Camry and ES were harsh riding. The refresh tried to fix that and the current generation fixed it.
Current GS generation had the same issue, but the refresh tried to fix that.
The 5LS has the same issue and Lexus needs to fix it for the refresh. 5LS was made for millenials and they are not buying the 5LS.
"White elephants" are bad.
Lexus will become Infiniti and Acura if they don't fix everything above.
Blame all this on Akio for wanting everything sporty.
All your random ramblings aside, I will focus on the 5LS.
You need to be logical - and not emotional in your posts.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion.
Give your opinion on the car, and don't give your opinion about someone else, nor about someone else's opinion.
If you don't have the courage to read someone's posts and reply with logic, then go to the top right and click on your name.
A curtain drops with the first option being User Control Panel; click this.
Then on the left hand column half way down, simply click Edit Ignore List.
I don't believe the 2015 refreshed Camry and 2016 refreshed 6.5ES tried to fix that at all.
The 2015 refreshed Camry got a FULL reskin which is unusual for Toyota.
The 2016 refreshed 6.5ES is only a minor facelift - which is normal for Toyota & Lexus.
I did test drive the 2012 and 2015 Camry V6, and they felt the same to me; the harshness and noise was more apparent than any previous generation of Camry.
The way to really find out is to determine if the 2015 refreshed Camry and 2016 refreshed 6.5ES has different front coil spring and front shock absorber part numbers, but if I'm not wong, there was no changes to suspension part numbers.
End of the day, the 4LS struggled to maintain market share after 2008, while the S Class bounced back after initially struggling too. What is your obsession of only comparing the LS to the S Class? What about the 7 Series? The market is bigger than just the S Class.
I don't think you get it. The market has changed so much in such a short amount of time. The Model S and Panamera came in and took up most of the LS market share, while the S Class and 7 Series maintained. And the Model S and Panamera are sporty first before old school luxury.
Here are my points:
4LS sales were good in the first two years in 2007 and 2008. 4LS sales dropped dramatically after the launch of the Model S and Panamera, while the S Class and 7 Series sales were also affected, they were able to eventually maintain market share after the launch of their latest generation offerings.
5LS is released in 2018 and is really different than the 4LS and more in line with a Panamera. 2018 sales were decent relative to the market, third place behind the Model S and S Class.
You disagree that the Model S and Panamera is why the 5LS is so different and want to blame it on only Akio's desire for everything sporty.
I don't think you get it. The market has changed so much in such a short amount of time. The Model S and Panamera came in and took up most of the LS market share, while the S Class and 7 Series maintained. And the Model S and Panamera are sporty first before old school luxury.
Here are my points:
4LS sales were good in the first two years in 2007 and 2008. 4LS sales dropped dramatically after the launch of the Model S and Panamera, while the S Class and 7 Series sales were also affected, they were able to eventually maintain market share after the launch of their latest generation offerings.
5LS is released in 2018 and is really different than the 4LS and more in line with a Panamera. 2018 sales were decent relative to the market, third place behind the Model S and S Class.
You disagree that the Model S and Panamera is why the 5LS is so different and want to blame it on only Akio's desire for everything sporty.
Immediately, he had to deal with the Global Financial Crisis of September 2008, and Toyota Motor Corp's very first US$115 billion dollar loss in 70 years of Toyota history.
Roughly six months after taking the presidency, Akio had to deal with the floor mat and accelerator pedal crisis with an US$1.2 billion dollar fine and the recall of some 14 million motor vehicles - mainly in the US.
Before President Akio could take a breath, the Japanese Tsunami and Thai Floods came with a number of factories lying idle as Toyota/Lexus production came to a standstill.
President Akio is an avid fan of motor racing.
He often races his Maserati at the Nurburgring.
In the photo below, President Akio & his close friend Dr Ulrich Bez CEO of Aston Martin - both swap driving their Lexus LFA V10 with the all new Aston Martin Zagato V12.
There was a very nice article detailing how President Akio is heavily influenced by his Western peers, and he wanted TMC to have heritage like the Maserati Brothers, and Aston Martin etc.
Just after the 2008 GFC, the German trio of Benz, Beamer & Audi began a tremendous fightback, because they were sick of playing 2nd fiddle to Japanese luxury.
In response to the four issues at the time of the Global Financial Crisis with TMC's 1st US115 billion dollar loss, the floor mat accelerator pedal recalls, and the Japanese Tsunami/Thai Floods - combined with the German fightback with increased sales - President Akio stipulated that TMC will no longer make boring cars, and that TMC products will have more inspired styling and more inspired dynamics.
It's not just 5LS that is Panamera-like, but sports overtones across the "entire" Toyota/Lexus range.
Thus came the first spindle grill with the sporty 4GS in February 2012.
Then the sporty 6ES mid-2012.
A sporty midlife update on 4.5LS mid-2012 too.
With the sporty 3IS early in 2013.
President Akio's ploy has been largely very successful, with record global production, and now Toyota Motor Corp has nearly US$200 billion dollars in equity [assets less liabilities], which is more than Daimler & BMW AG added together.
The good looking RX has been the US's top selling luxury vehicle for many years now - keeping in mind that styling is very subjective, and only Toyota/Lexus internal polling will know what is considered attractive/not.
NX sells quite well too.
Spwolf will love me for this paragraph because he loves Toyota/Lexus products, to the point where Toyota/Lexus can do NO wrong in his world.
I prefer to be realistic instead - I can take the dirt with the gravy.
However, along the way, there are a few hiccups as usual. Life is never perfect.
TMC produced a number of ungainly styled vehicles like the: Prius, Mirai, and 5LS - styling is very important, and styling is one of the main reasons 5LS has failed to sell in satisfactory volume.
One reason Model S is a top seller, because it is a very slick looking car, while a number of people have described 5LS as having an Infiniti-like rear quarter styling.
Of course, styling is always very subjective.
5LS failure doesn't just boil down to the styling, but includes factors like the front mid-engine which compromizes cabin space.
Consumers have shown that they are NOT interested in purchasing 5LS in decent quantities.
Neither the Prius, nor the Mirai is selling in appreciable quantities either.
Here is an actual Lexus VP saying that the Model S has stolen market share from the 4LS in 2014. This was five years ago.
https://insideevs.com/lexus-might-lo...-marketing-vp/
"Brian Smith, vice president of marketing for Lexus US says that, despite sinking sales of the Lexus LS, the automaker isn’t concerned:
“We don’t feel it’s a problem with the car. Many of the buyers in that segment want what’s new and they’re trying it.”
Want what’s new…that’s the Tesla Model S, apparently.
Smith admits that the Tesla Model S is bringing in buyers in the Upper Luxury Car segment in the US, stating:
“They’re right behind Mercedes in volume.”
But Smith doesn’t seem convinced that Model S buyers will stay loyal to the Tesla brand:
“I think the question remains to be seen how many people will buy a second Tesla.”
According to Smith, Lexus is probably losing some buyers to Tesla, but as he says:
“They’ll probably come back [to Lexus].”
Doesn’t sound that convincing now, does it?
According to Ward’s Auto:
“Sales of the LS, which was all-new in ’07 and last refreshed in ’13, were down in the same period, 19.7% to 2,149 units.”
“WardsAuto estimates Model S sales tallied 4,600 units through May, down 6.2% from the same period year-ago.”
https://insideevs.com/lexus-might-lo...-marketing-vp/
"Brian Smith, vice president of marketing for Lexus US says that, despite sinking sales of the Lexus LS, the automaker isn’t concerned:
“We don’t feel it’s a problem with the car. Many of the buyers in that segment want what’s new and they’re trying it.”
Want what’s new…that’s the Tesla Model S, apparently.
Smith admits that the Tesla Model S is bringing in buyers in the Upper Luxury Car segment in the US, stating:
“They’re right behind Mercedes in volume.”
But Smith doesn’t seem convinced that Model S buyers will stay loyal to the Tesla brand:
“I think the question remains to be seen how many people will buy a second Tesla.”
According to Smith, Lexus is probably losing some buyers to Tesla, but as he says:
“They’ll probably come back [to Lexus].”
Doesn’t sound that convincing now, does it?
According to Ward’s Auto:
“Sales of the LS, which was all-new in ’07 and last refreshed in ’13, were down in the same period, 19.7% to 2,149 units.”
“WardsAuto estimates Model S sales tallied 4,600 units through May, down 6.2% from the same period year-ago.”
You think that a President cannot lie?
Of course Lexus US VP won't admit it.
If I were him, I would wait till the midlife refresh 5.5LS, or even the 6LS is released - before I admit wrong doing.
This is interesting. The second year numbers are bad, where does it go in year 3?
The passion and emotional attachment you have for the LS and/or the Lexus brand does not allow you to see things from a distance. The LS500 is a flop. Doesn't mean its no good or a bad car. It means it has no audience/buyer. Sometimes good movies flop. Sometimes good cars flop.
The passion and emotional attachment you have for the LS and/or the Lexus brand does not allow you to see things from a distance. The LS500 is a flop. Doesn't mean its no good or a bad car. It means it has no audience/buyer. Sometimes good movies flop. Sometimes good cars flop.
So, the Model S is easily outselling the Lexus LS through the first 5 months of 2014. The Upper-Luxury Car segment is seeing improving sales too
“…sales rose 4.0% through May to 23,818 units.”
Meanwhile, Lexus LS sales are sinking.
In its launch year of 1990, Lexus LS sales (few competitors existed at the time) hit 42,980 units. Of course, LS sales have no chance of ever returning to that lofty mark, but could it be true that electric automaker Tesla is already stealing sales from some of the most established luxury automakers? We think so, but as Smith asked, will Model S owners “buy a second Tesla?” Of course they will. Lexus is in trouble and by not acknowledging that most current Tesla owners will be loyal to the brand for life, Lexus is setting itself up for disaster.
Lexus could solve this problem with ease by making a 200-mile luxury EV, but that isn’t gonna happen anytime soon. It seems that Lexus/Toyota just doesn’t get it. Electric is the future. It’s time to join the EV train for real."
So there you have it. Time for Lexus to make a full electric LS to get those former customers back. You and OP won't be able to complain about the noise level anymore with a full electric LS. Haha.
“…sales rose 4.0% through May to 23,818 units.”
Meanwhile, Lexus LS sales are sinking.
In its launch year of 1990, Lexus LS sales (few competitors existed at the time) hit 42,980 units. Of course, LS sales have no chance of ever returning to that lofty mark, but could it be true that electric automaker Tesla is already stealing sales from some of the most established luxury automakers? We think so, but as Smith asked, will Model S owners “buy a second Tesla?” Of course they will. Lexus is in trouble and by not acknowledging that most current Tesla owners will be loyal to the brand for life, Lexus is setting itself up for disaster.
Lexus could solve this problem with ease by making a 200-mile luxury EV, but that isn’t gonna happen anytime soon. It seems that Lexus/Toyota just doesn’t get it. Electric is the future. It’s time to join the EV train for real."
So there you have it. Time for Lexus to make a full electric LS to get those former customers back. You and OP won't be able to complain about the noise level anymore with a full electric LS. Haha.
TMC is working hard on their EV's, but it takes time.
Don't worry about my opinions, nor the OP's opinions.
Just look at the sales figures - they speak for themselves.
Absolutely nothing that you or I post here - will change how consumers feel about 5LS....
.
Last edited by peteharvey; 04-13-19 at 10:42 PM.
04-13-19, 10:43 PM
#244
Forum Administrator
iTrader: (2)
Ok folks, this thread has run its course. The same folks with a bone to pick about the new LS are posting the same complaints over again (also happened in the similar thread last month that was closed and several past others in the 5LS forum).
You've had more than a fair chance to express your opinions; let's move on and please do not create new similar topics in the future please. We've given plenty of air time for this, continuing to do this every month is not productive.
You've had more than a fair chance to express your opinions; let's move on and please do not create new similar topics in the future please. We've given plenty of air time for this, continuing to do this every month is not productive.
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