mmarshall

Not sure I agree. Most people want to know what kind of engine they have simply for its fuel-mileage and projected fuel-use (which, of course, is also on the price sticker). And, of course, there are those who don't want an ICE at all, and/or who want to run on electronics at least part of the time (hybrid).

Sorry.......I don't want to sound argumentative, but I simply have a hard time believing that. That would be like telling me that I choose a vehicle simply by tossing darts at a board.



Well, that part I can agree on. Yes, some people can live with whatever is under the hood if they like the rest of the car enough. I myself, for example, could easily live with the 2.0T four in the Lincoln MKZ even though I much prefer the N/A V6 in the Impala, Lacrosse, Avalon, and Cadenza.

My comment was not meant to be disrespectful. If he has money to burn, fine. But, even with the kind of money that Bill Gates or Jeff Bezos has, I still (and this is my opinion) think that it is wise to know just what one are getting for it.

Stroock639

i have driven it... like 2 paragraphs up from what you quoted of mine i literally said how even in S+ i didn't think it felt that much faster, certainly not as fast feeling as the on paper torque and power figures would lead you to expect

the 500 is just too heavy, and that contributes a lot to the low rpms sluggish feeling since now you have a smaller engine pushing around much more weight, it's like 5000 lbs! the feeling of being more powerful lasted from about 2000 to 4000 rpm, after that the V8 has essentially caught up and goes on to reach redline in a more exciting better sounding manner

excuse the scuffed up winter wheels that were still on

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

they may want to know what engine they have but that doesn't require looking under the hood.

no idea what looking under the hood has to do with tossing darts at a board, but to clarify, i've never looked under the hood at any car i've looked at or test driven as part of deciding what to buy or at purchase. sure i have looked under the hood once at home to check the oil, add washer fluid, etc.

when almost all people look under the hood they have little or NO IDEA what they're looking at or 'what they are getting'. it's a jumble of pipes, boxes, rods, cables, covers over parts of almost all of everything, etc.

AJT123

Great picture. Crazy to see the classic look compared to today. Who would have thought the LS (and cars in general) would have changed direction like this back in 1998?

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

all due respect to the older LS there, and no doubt it still drives like a creampuff cloud the new one looks spectacular in comparison.

but anyway, this thread is about the ls500h hybrid specifically.

southernx

Lexus LS500h RHD

Lexus LS500h RHD

The greener LS 500h hybrid V6 emits quite an unusual engine note when working. It sounds hollower somehow — not unpleasant, but certainly different from the higher-performance engine.While subdued and free of any unwelcome harshness, the hybrid V6 was no V8. It sounds fine with throttle open, bit may disappoint buyers preferring the rich, base note of a V8.
Sadly, despite the undeniable achievement, bringing such a finely-crafted car as the Lexus LS to market, it's part of a dying breed. Even the Benz S-Class is not immune from the gradual decline in the market segment for large cars over $100,000. In that context, the challenge for Lexus is to take sales away from existing competitors, rather than find buyers new to the segment. Can the LS do that? It will be an interesting contest...

SW17LS

I just don’t agree, the 500 feels much peppier in all throttle applications. “2000-4000 RPM” is the power band you’re in 90% of the time.

Sulu

Making sure that there is actually something that looks like an engine in there? And not a hamster wheel? Or not an electric motor? Or a frunk? (Sorry I just had throw in these last 2 items.)





Exactly. Most people would not be able to tell what size engine is under their hood, especially if, for example, the valley of a V6 or V8 is filled or the engine covered. With Lexus (and other luxury brands) covering up their engines with these huge engine covers (which Mike constantly complains about), what are we looking at? I remember members on Car Chat thinking that Volvos and Hyundais are RWD models because of how they mounted their engine covers.

Toys4RJill

Just the press talking in their typical cliche ways. Seems like naturally aspirated is a nice key word as well these days. Every performance measure favours the 500 over the 460. The journalists reviewing these cars will never buy these high end cars anyway

Stroock639

apart from the spindle grille (which is more ridiculous than ever in this car) and it looking slightly hatchback-y from certain angles it does definitely look very sleek

too much form over function though, this has departed too much from the original lexus mission and philosophy of engineering perfection and functionality above all else... fake air intakes on the front bumper? that's not how the LS came to be the class leader it used to be, and i think a part of why it no longer is

Stroock639

my LS is below 2000 rpm most of the time since thats all it needs to rev up to, and close to instant response is not the same as instant... you know from having them that the UZ powered LS's practically did (and still do) a wheelie when you step on the gas from 0, and that immediate feedback plus the sounds of the V8 just make it seem like there's a bigger more beastly engine instead of a smaller turbo'd engine

your car feels just as fast as the 500 above a certain rpm and revs much more nicely once there... even though there's less midrange torque in the V8s, it's not so much less (to me at least) that all the other benefits of the V8 are negated

703

To your point the new A8s aren’t selling well at all

The Bmw 750 and 760 are still v8s and v12s.
Merc s 560 and s63 are v8s.

VW have Bentley so still have v12s.

When people buy a flag ship Japanese they look for stuff that appeals to them. Previously it was the smooth v8, but now?

When people buy Europeans, sales are normally done on emotion and brand appeal. So yes they can afford to downsize engines and cramp more gizmos in to make the sale. Lexus cannot make sales on gizmos alone, it has to be something tangible that justifies over comparable Germans. This is where the LS falls short and the one of the reasons for poor sales.

AJT123

Yes. And if there was one thing the LS always had, it was the world's smoothest V8. It pretty much objectively held that crown; that's pretty special. It was known for that. I've experienced BMW, Mercedes, etc. V8s; they were by no means penalty boxes but the engines just weren't as smooth. I've never felt a smoother V8.

To the other point, FWIW a guy who lives in my neighborhood finally traded his W140 S320 (6 cyl) that I had always admired in on a brand new one, and he got the V8 S560. That bucks the trend.

UDel

Short test drives are one thing, a modern 6 cylinder may not feel much different than a 8 cylinder or a turbo 4 may not seem too bad compared to a 6 cylinder but if you live with them and drive them day in and day out you will definitely notice a difference and will likely miss the larger engines or wish you got the larger engine. When I test drove a 2016 GS350 I didn't like the engine or acceleration at all, could not wait to get back in my GS430 even though the GS350 had more power, that lethargic acceleration is unique to the 2016+ GS's though as the pre 2016 feel and are quicker but I still miss a V8 even though my GS350 is a little quicker. I test drove the GS200t and thought it was a joke, can't believe they put a 4cyl in it.

The 10K premium for the 8 cylinders is ridiculous though in flagships now, I don't know if I could stomach paying that much just for 2 extra cylinders.

SW17LS

Then you drive very slowly lol. I had the same car remember, to get meaningful acceleration you are well over 2k RPM, and your engine doesn't develop its peak power until well over 4,000 RPM. The LS500 develops its peak power around 1,800 RPM. The difference is very clear if you're looking at it in an unbiased way.

Of course it does, that's how torque curves work. The whole benefit of turbocharging is that it brings the power down into lower RPM bands that you use more often. I don't drive around above 4,000 RPM hardly ever, so I never use most of the power the V8 provides, where I would use the power the TT V6 provides.

I'm not saying I don't prefer the V8, I do I'm just saying there are real benefits to the TT engine whether that engine is a 6 or an 8.

The A8 sells as well as it can, its never been a huge seller in the US. Look around and look at the inventory on dealer lots, most 7 Series are 740s, most S Classes are S450s. The lease deals for instance are MUCH better on the 740 and the 450 to where it costs like $400+ more a month to get a 750 or 560. You have to ask yourself, is it worth it?

When you have a low volume car like the A8 or the LS, you have to understand why they dont offer more variants. If they sell 6,000 LS500s a year, if they had an available V8 how many would that be? 500? 1,000? Can you see where that isn't worthwhile for Lexus?

VW have Bentley so still have v12s.

When people buy a flag ship Japanese they look for stuff that appeals to them. Previously it was the smooth v8, but now?

When people buy Europeans, sales are normally done on emotion and brand appeal. So yes they can afford to downsize engines and cramp more gizmos in to make the sale. Lexus cannot make sales on gizmos alone, it has to be something tangible that justifies over comparable Germans. This is where the LS falls short and the one of the reasons for poor sales.[/QUOTE]

Remember I had a 4GS for 3 years and almost 50,000 miles, and immediately after I had the 15 LS460 and now have the 17 LS460L. I've also had the LS400 and LS430 and two ES's a 300 and a 350. I'm well aware of the differences between a V8 and a V6. I absolutely prefer a V8, but that preference has limits. Am I going to spend $10,000 or $400 more a month for the same car in the V8? No...

The TTV6 in the LS500 is much smoother and more powerful than the NA 3.5 in the GS. The same is true of the straight 6 in the 740 and the V6 in the S450, and the V6 in the A8.