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LS sales still tragically low moving only 474 units in April despite huge discounts on 2018 models that are still on the lots. I got an email from my dealer offering $15,000 off 2018s, and any savvy buyer knows that is just the starting point for discounting.
LS sales still tragically low moving only 474 units in April despite huge discounts on 2018 models that are still on the lots. I got an email from my dealer offering $15,000 off 2018s, and any savvy buyer knows that is just the starting point for discounting.
Saw that. It is not going well for Lexus LS. But I am wondering what their forecast was
I'm sure it's been revised since the initial 12,000 a year forecast that they didn't even come close to in 2018. They will be lucky to hit 6,000 this year. Probably best case 6,500.
LS sales still tragically low moving only 474 units in April despite huge discounts on 2018 models that are still on the lots. I got an email from my dealer offering $15,000 off 2018s, and any savvy buyer knows that is just the starting point for discounting.
My dealer had 4 LS500s and one LS500h out front all of them with "$20,000 off" hang tags from the mirrors. And thats a starting point, I'm sure you could swing a much better deal. As an example, I got $23,000 off my 2017 LS460L right on the cusp of the all new LS500 coming out, before buyers knew there were going to be significant changes to the nature of the car...so...thats bad.
The reason for that is not the TTV6 though. People wouldn't be buying this car if it had a V8, its the overall design choices Lexus made. If the car were larger inside, softer riding and less edgy and had this same TTV6 it would be selling better. 95% of LS buyers would buy another one with a TTV6 if it met their expectations in other areas. My MAIN gripe with the LS500 is interior space, and the firmer driving dynamics...the powertrain was not an issue for me when I drove it.
My dealer had 4 LS500s and one LS500h out front all of them with "$20,000 off" hang tags from the mirrors. And thats a starting point, I'm sure you could swing a much better deal. As an example, I got $23,000 off my 2017 LS460L right on the cusp of the all new LS500 coming out, before buyers knew there were going to be significant changes to the nature of the car...so...thats bad.
The reason for that is not the TTV6 though. People wouldn't be buying this car if it had a V8, its the overall design choices Lexus made. If the car were larger inside, softer riding and less edgy and had this same TTV6 it would be selling better. 95% of LS buyers would buy another one with a TTV6 if it met their expectations in other areas. My MAIN gripe with the LS500 is interior space, and the firmer driving dynamics...the powertrain was not an issue for me when I drove it.
The interior is unbelievably cramped for such a big car. One would get the impression you will fall down into a big cave when you get in when in reality, it's a small phone booth.
about ls500/500h room... i decided to take a look at 'proportions'/sizes relative to my g90 which is yuuuuuge inside.
took side profile images of both from the same site, scaled the g90 a bit because it's 1.1" shorter, and then ruled some same spots along the lengths. pretty easy to see why the LS is a BIG car with not very big interior.
The interior is unbelievably cramped for such a big car. One would get the impression you will fall down into a big cave when you get in when in reality, it's a small phone booth.
I'm 5'11" and hit my head on the door pillar getting in. It's by no means a penalty box in there, but a big part of the luxury car experience is just....space....which this doesn't have a lot of inside.
Then you drive very slowly lol. I had the same car remember, to get meaningful acceleration you are well over 2k RPM, and your engine doesn't develop its peak power until well over 4,000 RPM. The LS500 develops its peak power around 1,800 RPM. The difference is very clear if you're looking at it in an unbiased way.
well pick one am i a slow poke or a menace lol... and yes the real nice acceleration doesn't happen until like 3500, but there's enough torque that you can stay below 2500 as long as you never go above like 80 and still be able to merge without getting rear ended
and yes i know the 500 makes more usable power more of the time, be to me it's not so much more that i'd be willing to forfeit all the other benefits (to me) of the V8, and like you said having an available V8 would be a different story but to only have a V6 offered doesn't cut it and i think the sales figures reflect that
The interior is unbelievably cramped for such a big car. One would get the impression you will fall down into a big cave when you get in when in reality, it's a small phone booth.
I'm 6'1 and didn't feel much difference in the driver seat compared to my car (460L) and I have also owned a 430 and 400. I also sat in the back seat and thought it felt a bit more cramped but wasn't sure if that was just because I'm used to the ridiculous amount of room in my LWB. I don't think the 500 feels as small inside as most folks here.
well pick one am i a slow poke or a menace lol... and yes the real nice acceleration doesn't happen until like 3500, but there's enough torque that you can stay below 2500 as long as you never go above like 80 and still be able to merge without getting rear ended
and yes i know the 500 makes more usable power more of the time, be to me it's not so much more that i'd be willing to forfeit all the other benefits (to me) of the V8, and like you said having an available V8 would be a different story but to only have a V6 offered doesn't cut it and i think the sales figures reflect that
LS430 you can barely step on the gas, it won't top 2200 RPM as it melts through 4 upshifts and you're still ahead of traffic. It's like driving a CVT but in a good way, the RPMs stay the same as you keep going through gears. The V8's purring sound (not piped through the speakers) is amazing, and part of the experience which makes the 430 so luxurious.
If the V6tt is torquey like that, good. But yeah, there are V8 characteristics that are missing that not even the best 6 cylinder on earth can do anything about.
I'm 6'1 and didn't feel much difference in the driver seat compared to my car (460L) and I have also owned a 430 and 400. I also sat in the back seat and thought it felt a bit more cramped but wasn't sure if that was just because I'm used to the ridiculous amount of room in my LWB. I don't think the 500 feels as small inside as most folks here.
So what is the official interior size compared to the outgoing model?
about ls500/500h room... i decided to take a look at 'proportions'/sizes relative to my g90 which is yuuuuuge inside.
took side profile images of both from the same site, scaled the g90 a bit because it's 1.1" shorter, and then ruled some same spots along the lengths. pretty easy to see why the LS is a BIG car with not very big interior.
On the bright side, 5LS's average mass will be more concentrated around the Center of Gravity to minimize the Polar Moment of Inertia, to maximise 5LS's agility - the speed of change in direction - around a slalom.
I think the following three factors are needed in order of priority for 5LS sales success:
1) Styling.
2) Interior space.
3) V8.
For example, the 2005-12 Lexus 3GS had a low swoopy roofline, low waistline, raked windscreen, a tiny trunk opening, with a cozier cabin and trunk, and it had very soft coil springs with a lot of lean and weight transfer to the outside wheels - but 3GS still had record sales; from 2012 onwards, 4GS sales fell 33%, but E Class sales reached new records!
4GS has no V8, but V8's would have accounted for very few sales.
Likewise, 2012 E Class sales includes coupes, but very few E Classes are coupes.
Finally, President Akio must realize that the entry level Toyota market is different from the flagship full size luxury sedan Lexus market.
No more boring cars works largely for non-luxury Toyota products, but sporting-luxury sedans work poorly for the full size luxury sedan market, because consumers with this much money to spend tend to be older, hence prioritize comfort and luxury more.
Likewise, gasoline-electric hybrids work well for Toyotas and lower model Lexiis, but hybrids work poorly for flagship full size luxury sedan LS, because once again, consumers with this much money, using a hybrid to save money on gasoline is not a major priority.
LS430 you can barely step on the gas, it won't top 2200 RPM as it melts through 4 upshifts and you're still ahead of traffic. It's like driving a CVT but in a good way, the RPMs stay the same as you keep going through gears. The V8's purring sound (not piped through the speakers) is amazing, and part of the experience which makes the 430 so luxurious.
If the V6tt is torquey like that, good. But yeah, there are V8 characteristics that are missing that not even the best 6 cylinder on earth can do anything about.
exactly, sure there are times when i wish my LS were a bit faster, but i've never felt it needed to be faster... also most of the times i wish that are more to do with having only 5 long gears, and the trans liking to upshift early and stay in a higher gear rather than the engine being too weak (luxury took priority over sportiness back then so i guess that's why)... one quite handy thing the E55 does is not upshift until the steering wheel gets straightened out, so you can merge gently and it's still in 1st by the time you straighten out and put your foot down, it'd be nice if the LS had similar tuning
putting the ect in the PWR setting helps a bit but not that much, but what i've learned that works is to briefly floor it for a split second just to provoke the downshift and then put your foot back to where it would be... that's if you only really want the lower gear though which usually isn't necessary
The issue in the front is the much lower roofline across the top of the windshield. In the back the legroom is similar to my SWB LS460, much smaller than the LS460L I have now.
I'm 5'11" and hit my head on the door pillar getting in. It's by no means a penalty box in there, but a big part of the luxury car experience is just....space....which this doesn't have a lot of inside.
Originally Posted by jrmckinley
I'm 6'1 and didn't feel much difference in the driver seat compared to my car (460L) and I have also owned a 430 and 400. I also sat in the back seat and thought it felt a bit more cramped but wasn't sure if that was just because I'm used to the ridiculous amount of room in my LWB. I don't think the 500 feels as small inside as most folks here.
It is by no means a penalty box, it is a pretty nice place to be as a matter of fact. However, it feels more like a cocoon than a luxurious and spacious car. Put it this way, the LS460 can fit 5 people...ish, if the middle back person is short. No chance in the LS500.
05-02-19, 05:05 AM
