Epidemic of extremely slow drivers!!!!
05-11-19, 01:09 PM
#106
Lexus Champion
Isn't this similar to the debate, "What is hamburger. Chopped ham?"
I know you guys weren't born yet
https://youtu.be/Jd9Y-bqwM6c
I know you guys weren't born yet
https://youtu.be/Jd9Y-bqwM6c
05-11-19, 01:14 PM
#107
Lexus Fanatic
05-11-19, 01:25 PM
#108
Lexus Fanatic
I don't think anywhere near us do, or am I mistaken? But I am thinking of stop arm cams, that are like red light cams. I think central and western PA does? It's odd to me that legislation is the holdup. The cos. who make the equipment I believe provide it no charge, they get a portion of the fines. It's so cut and dry, either you passed the bus, or you did not. So nobody should be against stop arm cams. But lawmakers will argue against. A state congressman/rep in my area was against hands free laws, no lie. He said he will always drive with a cell phone in his hand. How stupid does that sound today?!
05-11-19, 01:41 PM
#109
Lexus Champion
I don't think anywhere near us do, or am I mistaken? But I am thinking of stop arm cams, that are like red light cams. I think central and western PA does? It's odd to me that legislation is the holdup. The cos. who make the equipment I believe provide it no charge, they get a portion of the fines. It's so cut and dry, either you passed the bus, or you did not. So nobody should be against stop arm cams. But lawmakers will argue against. A state congressman/rep in my area was against hands free laws, no lie. He said he will always drive with a cell phone in his hand. How stupid does that sound today?!
05-12-19, 04:07 AM
#110
Lexus Fanatic
This is just one of many examples of opposition. Today, if you are convicted, it's a mandatory suspension. No different than DUI.
My concern there is it's bus driver's word against yours. I commute through W Phila daily, and there are cases where buses are pulled over because the person they're waiting for is not there yet. On one ocassion out of hundreds, suddenly red lights went on as I was passing (I would say go from nothing to yellows to reds, much like a yellow light on a stop light--has to be a buffer). This was one time--that is the only possible confusing situation I can think of. This is why I like to have a dash cam--my video would show that bus had no indicators at all, when I moved out. End of story.
Apparently the legislation has passed (Act 159)? Dunno. All I know is cameras do not lie.....if you don't pass school buses, what difference does it make to anyone, that others are caught and have their licenses suspended using technology?
https://patch.com/pennsylvania/te/st...-be-illegal-pa
edit not sure if the law has changed so that a) the fine is $285 b) stop arm cams are now legal for school districts to use
It used to be a mandatory suspension, maybe that went away
https://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs...sInd=0&act=159
Last edited by Johnhav430; 05-12-19 at 04:14 AM.
05-12-19, 06:37 AM
#111
Lexus Fanatic
Yes and no. Even electronic speed-cameras are usually programmed to about a +10-11 MPH tolerance to account for things like speedometer error, gravity effect going downhill, the difficult-to-read gauges in some vehicles, and those who put oversize tires/wheels on their vehicles, which slows down wheel rotation at given road speed and forces the speedometer and odometer to read low. Even without cameras, it is unusual, at least in my area, for local cops or State Troopers to stop drivers for anything less than about +10 (MPH) or so over the limit. In Canada, though, where you are in Toronto, the KPH measurements instead of MPH might (?) make things a little different.
While Jill and I disagree about the safety impact of driving faster than an arbitrary speed limit, she's correct that its a "yes" or "no". 71 in a 70 IS speeding.
As an example. Jaywalking is illegal. Yet, you will almost never see a cop write a ticket for it because its difficult to prove and prosecute. That doesn't mean it isn't illegal.
The reason cameras have that 11 MPH gap is so that people who are given camera tickets have no defense. Same with troopers in general not stopping people until they are more than 10 over (which is not necessarily true, believe me). Its a financial thing, its not profitable for the municipality to issue citations and then have to defend them in court. If I get a ticket for 3 over, I'm way more likely to fight that and win than I am if its 13 over.
05-12-19, 06:47 AM
#112
Lexus Fanatic
This doesn't mean that you "aren't speeding" if you're only going 8MPH over the speed limit and you don't get a camera ticket, or don't get stopped by a trooper.
While Jill and I disagree about the safety impact of driving faster than an arbitrary speed limit, she's correct that its a "yes" or "no". 71 in a 70 IS speeding.
As an example. Jaywalking is illegal. Yet, you will almost never see a cop write a ticket for it because its difficult to prove and prosecute. That doesn't mean it isn't illegal.
The reason cameras have that 11 MPH gap is so that people who are given camera tickets have no defense. Same with troopers in general not stopping people until they are more than 10 over (which is not necessarily true, believe me). Its a financial thing, its not profitable for the municipality to issue citations and then have to defend them in court. If I get a ticket for 3 over, I'm way more likely to fight that and win than I am if its 13 over.
While Jill and I disagree about the safety impact of driving faster than an arbitrary speed limit, she's correct that its a "yes" or "no". 71 in a 70 IS speeding.
As an example. Jaywalking is illegal. Yet, you will almost never see a cop write a ticket for it because its difficult to prove and prosecute. That doesn't mean it isn't illegal.
The reason cameras have that 11 MPH gap is so that people who are given camera tickets have no defense. Same with troopers in general not stopping people until they are more than 10 over (which is not necessarily true, believe me). Its a financial thing, its not profitable for the municipality to issue citations and then have to defend them in court. If I get a ticket for 3 over, I'm way more likely to fight that and win than I am if its 13 over.
p.s. it's still $40, how much more reasonable can it get? 12 mph = $40. In Calif. it was like $560 at one point.
https://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/s...meralocations/
05-12-19, 06:57 AM
#113
Lexus Fanatic
Years ago, and it may have changed, DC published locations of stop and speed cams. However, unlike MD, there was no published threshold. And, there was a published scale like in Quebec, for 1-5, 6-10, etc. At the time, online people said there is in fact a threshold, but nobody really knows what it is. Some people said they went over at least 6 mph, and got no ticket. I researched because I did speed through a speed cam zone unknowingly, but figured I was 5 or 6 mph over. So wanted to know if I should expect a ticket. I think MD 11 or under is very generous. That's why when I'm in MD, I try to go the speed limit and locals blow my doors in, which I'm ok with. I don't live here so I'm going the speed limit, esp. through a speed cam zone.....I am specifically thinking of Germantown I think it's called. Everytime we stay over at a friends' house we pass through there on a Sunday morning.
p.s. it's still $40, how much more reasonable can it get? 12 mph = $40. In Calif. it was like $560 at one point.
https://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/s...meralocations/
p.s. it's still $40, how much more reasonable can it get? 12 mph = $40. In Calif. it was like $560 at one point.
https://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/s...meralocations/
Even If DC themselves didn't publish the thresholds they got out in the media quickly and we all knew what they were.
Yeah 11 MPH is very fair. Especially in a 25 or 35 zone where it remains 11 over.
05-12-19, 07:04 AM
#114
in amherst and western MA especially there's a paradox, everyone trundles along in part thanks to their old slow car, and that same car is then also too slow and old to pass anyone, so you get these super long lines building up where everyone is seemingly content to go like 43 in a 50 despite having so much room to get around who's causing the hold up! i think a 4 in 1 pass is my record haha...
1. We have an influx of summer people from NYC and Boston who never drive in the cities. They take their old Volvos and Subarus out of the barn and either go like maniacs or 20-50 below the speed limit as they are looking for the newest food co-op or forgot where the last year's was
2. They have legalized mary-jane in MA.but with few outlets so they are in a hurry to purchase but afterwards SLOOWDOOWN MAN.
3. Lot of "sanctuary" people who cannot read any language and/or never been behind the wheel of the car in their region of origin
4. Anchor familes who have a license, a job and let their n-qualified relatives and friends borrow the car.
5. Lots of unregistered cars without plates.
6. On the major highways lots of larger to semis without plates driving erratically
5. Old folks who come out between 10-3 pm when they think it is safe and drive 25 in a 50.
6. To many opiods
7. No driver ed
8. No consequences besides perhaps paying a fine for the sanctuary people. They just keep on driving.
9. No manners generally
10. Too many people and devices
Go to step one.
Last edited by ivanj; 05-12-19 at 07:13 AM.
05-12-19, 08:04 AM
#115
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
I agree plus:
1. We have an influx of summer people from NYC and Boston who never drive in the cities. They take their old Volvos and Subarus out of the barn and either go like maniacs or 20-50 below the speed limit as they are looking for the newest food co-op or forgot where the last year's was
2. They have legalized mary-jane in MA.but with few outlets so they are in a hurry to purchase but afterwards SLOOWDOOWN MAN.
3. Lot of "sanctuary" people who cannot read any language and/or never been behind the wheel of the car in their region of origin
4. Anchor familes who have a license, a job and let their n-qualified relatives and friends borrow the car.
5. Lots of unregistered cars without plates.
6. On the major highways lots of larger to semis without plates driving erratically
5. Old folks who come out between 10-3 pm when they think it is safe and drive 25 in a 50.
6. To many opiods
7. No driver ed
8. No consequences besides perhaps paying a fine for the sanctuary people. They just keep on driving.
9. No manners generally
10. Too many people and devices
Go to step one.
1. We have an influx of summer people from NYC and Boston who never drive in the cities. They take their old Volvos and Subarus out of the barn and either go like maniacs or 20-50 below the speed limit as they are looking for the newest food co-op or forgot where the last year's was
2. They have legalized mary-jane in MA.but with few outlets so they are in a hurry to purchase but afterwards SLOOWDOOWN MAN.
3. Lot of "sanctuary" people who cannot read any language and/or never been behind the wheel of the car in their region of origin
4. Anchor familes who have a license, a job and let their n-qualified relatives and friends borrow the car.
5. Lots of unregistered cars without plates.
6. On the major highways lots of larger to semis without plates driving erratically
5. Old folks who come out between 10-3 pm when they think it is safe and drive 25 in a 50.
6. To many opiods
7. No driver ed
8. No consequences besides perhaps paying a fine for the sanctuary people. They just keep on driving.
9. No manners generally
10. Too many people and devices
Go to step one.
More seriously, cars and even semis without plates?
hard to believe they don’t get caught pretty quickly.
05-12-19, 03:18 PM
#117
Lexus Fanatic
The reason cameras have that 11 MPH gap is so that people who are given camera tickets have no defense.
.....the 11 MPH leeway takes several different factors into consideration with speedometer error, gravity on downgrades, oversize wheels/tires, hard-to-read gauges, etc..... factors that some people would try and use to fight a ticket.
05-12-19, 04:10 PM
#118
Lexus Fanatic
Not sure how that is any different from what I said earlier .....the 11 MPH leeway takes several different factors into consideration with speedometer error, gravity on downgrades, oversize wheels/tires, hard-to-read gauges, etc..... factors that some people would try and use to fight a ticket.
.....the 11 MPH leeway takes several different factors into consideration with speedometer error, gravity on downgrades, oversize wheels/tires, hard-to-read gauges, etc..... factors that some people would try and use to fight a ticket.
What IS a defense of speeding is the calibration of equipment used by police that proves somebody is speeding. As a person accused of speeding you have the right to subpoena the records of calibration for the equipment used. Its hard to say that a peice of equipment which clocked you speeding was 13 MPH out of adjustment. Much easier to say its 3 MPH out of adjustment. Attorneys will always tell you to issue that subpoena because if the police department can't or won't produce that, or the equipment was a little outside when it was supposed to be calibrated the case would be thrown out. The reason for the customary "grace period" is simply to ensure that people who are cited just accept the citation.
Try going to court and convince a judge that because of the large aftermarket wheels you chose to put on your truck your speedometer didnt read properly and you didn't know you were speeding LOL
Last edited by SW17LS; 05-12-19 at 04:14 PM.
05-12-19, 05:21 PM
#119
Lexus Fanatic
Every municipality in our area has clearly marked crosswalks. Its beside the point.
None of the things you've mentioned are excuses for speeding. Oversized wheels and tires and speedometers and equipment that dont work properly are illegal. A driver has to control his or her vehicle on a downgrade, speeding downhill is just as illegal as speeding on a flat road. Those things aren't a defense of speeding.
What IS a defense of speeding is the calibration of equipment used by police that proves somebody is speeding. As a person accused of speeding you have the right to subpoena the records of calibration for the equipment used. Its hard to say that a peice of equipment which clocked you speeding was 13 MPH out of adjustment. Much easier to say its 3 MPH out of adjustment. Attorneys will always tell you to issue that subpoena because if the police department can't or won't produce that, or the equipment was a little outside when it was supposed to be calibrated the case would be thrown out. The reason for the customary "grace period" is simply to ensure that people who are cited just accept the citation.
Try going to court and convince a judge that because of the large aftermarket wheels you chose to put on your truck your speedometer didnt read properly and you didn't know you were speeding LOL
None of the things you've mentioned are excuses for speeding. Oversized wheels and tires and speedometers and equipment that dont work properly are illegal. A driver has to control his or her vehicle on a downgrade, speeding downhill is just as illegal as speeding on a flat road. Those things aren't a defense of speeding.
What IS a defense of speeding is the calibration of equipment used by police that proves somebody is speeding. As a person accused of speeding you have the right to subpoena the records of calibration for the equipment used. Its hard to say that a peice of equipment which clocked you speeding was 13 MPH out of adjustment. Much easier to say its 3 MPH out of adjustment. Attorneys will always tell you to issue that subpoena because if the police department can't or won't produce that, or the equipment was a little outside when it was supposed to be calibrated the case would be thrown out. The reason for the customary "grace period" is simply to ensure that people who are cited just accept the citation.
Try going to court and convince a judge that because of the large aftermarket wheels you chose to put on your truck your speedometer didnt read properly and you didn't know you were speeding LOL
I myself, BTW, have never been to court for a speeding ticket because I have never actually gotten a speeding ticket....only one warning, in Rock Creek Park, on Beach Drive, long ago in 1984, in my Mazda. I have, on a couple of occasions, gotten red-light tickets (and one photo-camera incident). I paid a couple of them....they were not very large fines (only $50 in Virginia). I did beat one red-light ticket, though, in 1985, that I thought was unfair, when I went to court, without a lawyer, and fought it...but it took an appeal and a meeting with the county attorney to do so. I agreed to plead guilty, and he dropped the charges, with no fine or points on the license.
Talk about Karma LOL. About a month or so after that court-incident, I witnessed an accident at a nearby intersection in Arlington County (right in front of my car)....where someone else ran a red light and impacted another car (fortunately, no one was badly hurt). Since I figured the police would probably want my account as a witness, I parked and waited for the cop to arrive. And who did the police-dispatcher send to investigate it?.....the very same cop who had written me up the month before. He remembered me, the red-light incident, and the court hearing very well, and you could tell he was embarrassed because now he was going to ask me to help him investigate. Anyhow, I gave him my story of what happened in this latest accident, who hit who, pointed out some skid-marks on the pavement (this was in the days before ABS) and what the traffic-light looked like at the time. He went back to his cruiser, spent some time on the radio, interviewed the two drivers involved, then came back to me and told me that he agreed with my assessment, but that he could not charge the driver responsible because that person had diplomatic immunity (must have worked at some embassy downtown, for a diplomat). We shook hands, said good-night to each other, and agreed it was a small world.
Last edited by mmarshall; 05-12-19 at 06:04 PM.
05-12-19, 06:07 PM
#120
Lexus Test Driver
it's not like avoiding a speeding ticket is particularly difficult, just don't go over the speed limit and you won't get one
im somewhat proud of my only getting tickets and never getting arrested and currently having no points lol
im somewhat proud of my only getting tickets and never getting arrested and currently having no points lol