Does the Lexus ES Have Any Shortcomings?
05-25-19, 12:55 AM
#31
It is interesting how Lexus chooses to taper the rear doors for less rear shoulder room; but then rear side safety should improve.
That's Lexus' choice to make the roofline swoopy, restricting rear head room, but do keep in mind that the higher rear seat base gives rear occupants a superior theatre-like view.
He didn't say much about ES's rear legroom which I thought is "by far" the most generous of the four vehicles.
He said the ES had 20% smaller trunk capacity, although ES's trunk is deeper.
I am surprized that he found the Germans ride to be more comfortable and quieter - the only possible explanation I can come up with is if the ES was on OEM Dunlop SP Sport 050 235/45R18's [which are solid sports, rather than touring tires], while the Germans were on 17" rims with 50 series touring [sporting luxury] tires...
05-25-19, 03:26 AM
#32
Pole Position
Interior quality and layout is the biggest shortcoming in my opinion. It's great when the car has entry sedan price but overseas this car starts at GS350 money and that's when interior sticks out like a sore thumb.
05-25-19, 03:34 AM
#33
Pole Position
As usual, garbage from our friends across the pond. ES isn't even in the same league as a 5 series, E Class, etc. Pretty stupid comparison.
On another note, I'm pretty shocked I haven't seen one around town here. I see a new LS about once every 3 months or so; have literally not seen one ES.
Believe it or not, in this SUV crazy area, the Lexus I see the most frequently is the now very old GX by a pretty fair margin.
On another note, I'm pretty shocked I haven't seen one around town here. I see a new LS about once every 3 months or so; have literally not seen one ES.
Believe it or not, in this SUV crazy area, the Lexus I see the most frequently is the now very old GX by a pretty fair margin.
Last edited by Vladi; 05-25-19 at 03:39 AM.
05-25-19, 06:13 AM
#34
Lexus Fanatic
II am surprized that he found the Germans ride to be more comfortable and quieter - the only possible explanation I can come up with is if the ES was on OEM Dunlop SP Sport 050 235/45R18's [which are solid sports, rather than touring tires], while the Germans were on 17" rims with 50 series touring [sporting luxury] tires...
A few vehicles, however (very few, in my experience,) do ride comfortably with 45s on that size rims...if the suspension is soft enough. And, sometimes, temperature can make a difference. My small Buick Verano, for instance, with 18" 45s, rode comfortably in the summer, when the tire-rubber and shock-fluid in the suspension was warm and flexible from the heat, but much firmer over bumps when it was cold in the winter, with stiff rubber and shock-fluid.
Last edited by mmarshall; 05-25-19 at 06:20 AM.
05-25-19, 01:41 PM
#35
That was exactly my experience, too, when I sampled a 2019 ES with the 45-series tires....I wasn't impressed wth the ride quality or road noise level, either, yet there were several posters, here, in Car Chat, who disagreed with me.
A few vehicles, however (very few, in my experience,) do ride comfortably with 45s on that size rims...if the suspension is soft enough. And, sometimes, temperature can make a difference. My small Buick Verano, for instance, with 18" 45s, rode comfortably in the summer, when the tire-rubber and shock-fluid in the suspension was warm and flexible from the heat, but much firmer over bumps when it was cold in the winter, with stiff rubber and shock-fluid.
A few vehicles, however (very few, in my experience,) do ride comfortably with 45s on that size rims...if the suspension is soft enough. And, sometimes, temperature can make a difference. My small Buick Verano, for instance, with 18" 45s, rode comfortably in the summer, when the tire-rubber and shock-fluid in the suspension was warm and flexible from the heat, but much firmer over bumps when it was cold in the winter, with stiff rubber and shock-fluid.
However, now that Vladi has confirmed that the four cars have reasonably similar pricing, and that we're dealing with a flagship ES vs three entry level Germans, it all makes sense.
I bet the flagship ES has moonroof as standard, while the three entry level Germans have no moonroof - hence the ES's lack of rear head room?
Likewise, the flagship ES uses big 235/45R18 OEM Dunlop SP Sport 050 sports tires, while the three entry level Germans ride on softer and quieter touring 50% profile tires on smaller 17" wheels?
Pity the British journalist did not point this out to make things more fair.
Sure the ES is transversely mounted FWD, but the journalist didn't really point out that 7ES has bags more rear legroom than the three longitudinal engined Germans.
Hence it is a biased comparison.
In my experience, on the same vehicle with the same spring rates, the old taller profile tires always have a softer and quieter ride than the new low profile tires; this is even more noticeable as the tires wear out.
I can only suggest that Lexus offers a "delete option" for the sporty low profile tires, just like they offer delete options for the headroom robbing and structurally more compromized moon roof.
I guess we could soften the springs and increase the sound insulation to compensate for the ride and noise of low profile tires, but what an inefficient way to do things that increases body roll and weight transfer to the outside wheels to diminish grip, and all the extra sound insulation material needed...
.
Last edited by peteharvey; 05-25-19 at 02:29 PM.
05-27-19, 09:39 AM
#36
Across Europe it's priced exactly like 5er and E-class. It's base price equals of GS300h msrp and you do get more standard equipment but you loose rwd and quality materials inside the cabin. I'm sure Lexus expects to sell as many ESes as they did GSes just this time they will make more money on each unit sold. I had high hopes they would go aggressive pricing like in US in order to attack the Germans and cover the ground that GS couldn't because it lacked reasonably priced low trim versions.
05-27-19, 03:31 PM
#38
Lexus Fanatic
Walter Chrysler, when he left GM and first started designing and selling his own cars, probably had it right......he would not approve a design that he could not easily get in and out of while wearing one of his beloved hats.
Last edited by mmarshall; 05-27-19 at 03:35 PM.
05-27-19, 03:36 PM
#39
Lexus Fanatic
That's because of the automakers' obsession, today, on many sedans, with Humpback-Whale rooflines that swoop down in the rear. To actually design something with headroom in back is considered passe'.
Walter Chrysler, when he left GM and first started designing and selling his own cars, probably had it right......he would not approve a design that he could not easily get in and out of while wearing one of his beloved hats.
Walter Chrysler, when he left GM and first started designing and selling his own cars, probably had it right......he would not approve a design that he could not easily get in and out of while wearing one of his beloved hats.
05-27-19, 04:22 PM
#40
Lexus Fanatic
05-27-19, 04:28 PM
#41
Lexus Fanatic
05-27-19, 04:39 PM
#42
Lexus Fanatic
LOL. You don't have to grasp when straws are right in front of you.
I've actually had shorter older folks ask me what an ideal vehicle is for them that sits very low to the ground...they tried the typical CUV crossovers and found them too high. One such lady is 92 and still driving....though her son helps her at home, she's still able to drive by herself. More power to her....hope she still can at 100.
I've actually had shorter older folks ask me what an ideal vehicle is for them that sits very low to the ground...they tried the typical CUV crossovers and found them too high. One such lady is 92 and still driving....though her son helps her at home, she's still able to drive by herself. More power to her....hope she still can at 100.
05-27-19, 04:56 PM
#43
Lexus Champion
LOL. You don't have to grasp when straws are right in front of you.
I've actually had shorter older folks ask me what an ideal vehicle is for them that sits very low to the ground...they tried the typical CUV crossovers and found them too high. One such lady is 92 and still driving....though her son helps her at home, she's still able to drive by herself. More power to her....hope she still can at 100.
I've actually had shorter older folks ask me what an ideal vehicle is for them that sits very low to the ground...they tried the typical CUV crossovers and found them too high. One such lady is 92 and still driving....though her son helps her at home, she's still able to drive by herself. More power to her....hope she still can at 100.
05-27-19, 05:14 PM
#44
Lexus Fanatic
The current ES has many shortcomings, and many compromises...that doesn't mean its not an excellent car. Ive had two ES's and I was very hard on the pre-refresh version of the last ES (2013-2015) mainly for cost cutting measures in the interior compared to the previous versions of the car both of which I owned. IMHO the current all new ES is easily the best overall Lexus ES they have made, and shows (as the refresh 2016 ES did) that they realized they made mistakes in 2013 and made the changes they needed to.
As to its shortcomings and compromises, by the very nature of what it is there are shortcomings and compromises. Its entry level, built to a price designed to give buyers as much luxury as they can at the price point where the car is. Its a FWD Toyota derived vehicle, which is a huge shortcoming when you look at what BMW and MB and Audi and even Genesis are presenting in that price category. BUT, you get a much larger car than BMW or MB or Audi are offering for the money, the tradeoff is its not as substantial a car. The G80 is the whole package, but its very old at this point. Its a nice looking, nicely appointed very nice driving FWD mainstream derived car with a basic macpherson strut suspension and an old 3.5L V6.
But, what else of that size, panache, quality and reliability can you buy for $45k or so? $500 lease payment? Not much. There are many better cars that do everything better...but they cost a lot more.
As to its shortcomings and compromises, by the very nature of what it is there are shortcomings and compromises. Its entry level, built to a price designed to give buyers as much luxury as they can at the price point where the car is. Its a FWD Toyota derived vehicle, which is a huge shortcoming when you look at what BMW and MB and Audi and even Genesis are presenting in that price category. BUT, you get a much larger car than BMW or MB or Audi are offering for the money, the tradeoff is its not as substantial a car. The G80 is the whole package, but its very old at this point. Its a nice looking, nicely appointed very nice driving FWD mainstream derived car with a basic macpherson strut suspension and an old 3.5L V6.
But, what else of that size, panache, quality and reliability can you buy for $45k or so? $500 lease payment? Not much. There are many better cars that do everything better...but they cost a lot more.
10-07-19, 06:35 AM
#45
What is a 45 series tire?