2020 RX and RXL revealed...
06-10-19, 11:38 AM
#136
Pole Position
Certainly that plays a role, but what about people claiming that ugly grill as a cause of Lexus losing market share? Lexus had even less models than they do now when they were first in sales. Its many contributing factors, UI, its face, age of vehicles, powertrains and etc.
06-10-19, 12:48 PM
#137
Lexus Fanatic
Certainly that plays a role, but what about people claiming that ugly grill as a cause of Lexus losing market share? Lexus had even less models than they do now when they were first in sales. Its many contributing factors, UI, its face, age of vehicles, powertrains and etc.
Yes they had less models, but BMW and Mercedes had FAR less models.
06-10-19, 01:02 PM
#138
Lexus Fanatic
Worldwide, Lexus is growing. In the US, the market is slowing and less cars are being sold year after year, so Lexus will never grow the way it once did, instead Lexus has pushed many of their points higher to make up for it.
I have noticed on this site, there are those that come out of the wood work to just hate or bring up the same old tired song (usually tied upon of their past views), versus those who actually give a little bit of criticism. Lexus is on a new path, new markets, new buyers, a new way of doing things.
06-10-19, 01:07 PM
#139
Lexus Champion
I'm admittedly getting off track, but in my experience, one of the biggest factors hurting Lexus against BMW is just how well BMWs lease comparatively.
Earlier this year I was comparing the 540i to the GS350. I went with the GS because I wanted to buy it (not lease) and the GS was considerably less than the 540i I was looking at. But if I were going to lease, the BMW made more sense because of the much higher residuals. I could lease a $75k 540i for less per month than a $61k GS.
Earlier this year I was comparing the 540i to the GS350. I went with the GS because I wanted to buy it (not lease) and the GS was considerably less than the 540i I was looking at. But if I were going to lease, the BMW made more sense because of the much higher residuals. I could lease a $75k 540i for less per month than a $61k GS.
06-10-19, 01:15 PM
#140
Lexus Fanatic
I'm admittedly getting off track, but in my experience, one of the biggest factors hurting Lexus against BMW is just how well BMWs lease comparatively.
Earlier this year I was comparing the 540i to the GS350. I went with the GS because I wanted to buy it (not lease) and the GS was considerably less than the 540i I was looking at. But if I were going to lease, the BMW made more sense because of the much higher residuals. I could lease a $75k 540i for less per month than a $61k GS.
Earlier this year I was comparing the 540i to the GS350. I went with the GS because I wanted to buy it (not lease) and the GS was considerably less than the 540i I was looking at. But if I were going to lease, the BMW made more sense because of the much higher residuals. I could lease a $75k 540i for less per month than a $61k GS.
06-10-19, 01:48 PM
#141
Pole Position
RC- Dud
GSF- Dud
LC - Dud
NX - Average
US - Slightly below average
GX - decade old
LX - decade old
RX - sells on reputation and value
ES - Surprise hit
IS - Old
GS - Missing 3 legs and the 4th is rotting fast
This RX refresh is half-azzed at best. Couple of extra welds and new UI and less than minor styling changes but it will sell based on reputation and value. For the last half a decade, it has been about sports cars and performance with mediocre engines and transmissions. Doesnt look like a company with a clear path to anything other than "shrug- lets do this now."
LS500 - Dud
06-10-19, 01:52 PM
#142
Lexus Fanatic
I think it is the business decisions that is killing sales in the U.S. more than anything else. In the last 5 yrs or so, we got some mediocre or at best average and some overpriced products and products that doesnt meet market demands.
RC- Dud
GSF- Dud
LC - Dud
NX - Average
US - Slightly below average
GX - decade old
LX - decade old
RX - sells on reputation and value
ES - Surprise hit
IS - Old
GS - Missing 3 legs and the 4th is rotting fast
This RX refresh is half-azzed at best. Couple of extra welds and new UI and less than minor styling changes but it will sell based on reputation and value. For the last half a decade, it has been about sports cars and performance with mediocre engines and transmissions. Doesnt look like a company with a clear path to anything other than "shrug- lets do this now."
LS500 - Dud
RC- Dud
GSF- Dud
LC - Dud
NX - Average
US - Slightly below average
GX - decade old
LX - decade old
RX - sells on reputation and value
ES - Surprise hit
IS - Old
GS - Missing 3 legs and the 4th is rotting fast
This RX refresh is half-azzed at best. Couple of extra welds and new UI and less than minor styling changes but it will sell based on reputation and value. For the last half a decade, it has been about sports cars and performance with mediocre engines and transmissions. Doesnt look like a company with a clear path to anything other than "shrug- lets do this now."
LS500 - Dud
06-10-19, 02:56 PM
#143
Lexus Fanatic
And who says anything is "killing sales in the US"?!? I see no evidence of that.
As for the RX refresh...its totally in line with every past refresh of the RX...
As for the RX refresh...its totally in line with every past refresh of the RX...
06-10-19, 03:01 PM
#144
I think it is the business decisions that is killing sales in the U.S. more than anything else. In the last 5 yrs or so, we got some mediocre or at best average and some overpriced products and products that doesnt meet market demands.
RC- Dud
GSF- Dud
LC - Dud
NX - Average
US - Slightly below average
GX - decade old
LX - decade old
RX - sells on reputation and value
ES - Surprise hit
IS - Old
GS - Missing 3 legs and the 4th is rotting fast
This RX refresh is half-azzed at best. Couple of extra welds and new UI and less than minor styling changes but it will sell based on reputation and value. For the last half a decade, it has been about sports cars and performance with mediocre engines and transmissions. Doesnt look like a company with a clear path to anything other than "shrug- lets do this now."
LS500 - Dud
RC- Dud
GSF- Dud
LC - Dud
NX - Average
US - Slightly below average
GX - decade old
LX - decade old
RX - sells on reputation and value
ES - Surprise hit
IS - Old
GS - Missing 3 legs and the 4th is rotting fast
This RX refresh is half-azzed at best. Couple of extra welds and new UI and less than minor styling changes but it will sell based on reputation and value. For the last half a decade, it has been about sports cars and performance with mediocre engines and transmissions. Doesnt look like a company with a clear path to anything other than "shrug- lets do this now."
LS500 - Dud
Last edited by jwong77; 06-10-19 at 03:04 PM.
06-10-19, 03:01 PM
#145
Lexus Fanatic
Originally Posted by situman
This RX refresh is half-azzed at best.
For the last half a decade, it has been about sports cars and performance with mediocre engines and transmissions. Doesnt look like a company with a clear path to anything other than "shrug- lets do this now."
For the last half a decade, it has been about sports cars and performance with mediocre engines and transmissions. Doesnt look like a company with a clear path to anything other than "shrug- lets do this now."
Car Chat has a number of folks that are not particularly strong Lexus fans. That's why we talk about anything on wheels here.
06-10-19, 03:04 PM
#146
Lexus Fanatic
06-10-19, 03:10 PM
#147
Lexus Fanatic
06-10-19, 03:30 PM
#148
I think it is the business decisions that is killing sales in the U.S. more than anything else. In the last 5 yrs or so, we got some mediocre or at best average and some overpriced products and products that doesnt meet market demands.
RC- Dud [True - styling lacklustre]
GSF- Dud [Not really, this type of vehicle cannot sell in high volumes]
LC - Dud [Not really, this type of vehicle cannot sell in high volumes]
NX - Average [True - a reasonable motor vehicle]
US - Slightly below average [UX I think is reasonable, but US doesn't really like sub-compacts; Europe loves sub-compacts]
GX - decade old [True]
LX - decade old [True]
RX - sells on [b][styling] reputation and value [IMO RX too firmly damped, and low profile tires too nonabsorbent and noisy]
ES - Surprise hit [I think ES is dragging along well, going back to a more comfortable and refined ride]
IS - Old [True]
GS - Missing 3 legs and the 4th is rotting fast [GS is just very old, that's all; it took nearly 12 years to release 5LS, so it may take a bit longer to release 5GS & 4IS]
This RX refresh is half-azzed at best. Couple of extra welds and new UI and less than minor styling changes but it will sell based on reputation and value. For the last half a decade, it has been about sports cars and performance [so very true] with mediocre engines and transmissions. Doesnt look like a company with a clear path to anything other than "shrug- lets do this now."
LS500 - Dud [Very true]
RC- Dud [True - styling lacklustre]
GSF- Dud [Not really, this type of vehicle cannot sell in high volumes]
LC - Dud [Not really, this type of vehicle cannot sell in high volumes]
NX - Average [True - a reasonable motor vehicle]
US - Slightly below average [UX I think is reasonable, but US doesn't really like sub-compacts; Europe loves sub-compacts]
GX - decade old [True]
LX - decade old [True]
RX - sells on [b][styling] reputation and value [IMO RX too firmly damped, and low profile tires too nonabsorbent and noisy]
ES - Surprise hit [I think ES is dragging along well, going back to a more comfortable and refined ride]
IS - Old [True]
GS - Missing 3 legs and the 4th is rotting fast [GS is just very old, that's all; it took nearly 12 years to release 5LS, so it may take a bit longer to release 5GS & 4IS]
This RX refresh is half-azzed at best. Couple of extra welds and new UI and less than minor styling changes but it will sell based on reputation and value. For the last half a decade, it has been about sports cars and performance [so very true] with mediocre engines and transmissions. Doesnt look like a company with a clear path to anything other than "shrug- lets do this now."
LS500 - Dud [Very true]
06-10-19, 03:38 PM
#149
Instructor
I agree that Lexus launched some mediocre vehicles in the past few years. The number of models has increased but the sales figure hasn’t increased proportionally. We tried very hard to like the new RX and other newer Lexus models. But we simply couldnt stomach the spindle grill when it came time to replace our aging LS’s years ago. We went with the Germans. Yes, the spindle grill drove us away.
Btw, why has Lexus launched the RC and LC when the market clearly prefers SUVs? Neither one sells well. The GX and LX are the ones that desperately need updates! Lexus is handing the premium CUV segment to the Germans.
Btw, why has Lexus launched the RC and LC when the market clearly prefers SUVs? Neither one sells well. The GX and LX are the ones that desperately need updates! Lexus is handing the premium CUV segment to the Germans.
06-10-19, 03:46 PM
#150
Lexus Fanatic