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According to CR, ride is the best feature about the Legacy.
That's the case with several Subaru products, but with the Forester and Outback, I'd also add outstanding visibility out the large square windows. CR also commented on that. And, then, of course, there is the efficient, effective Subaru AWD system...the main reason why people buy these vehicles.
Good post, peteharvey. All else equal, a lower center of gravity usually does mean better handling (and less body roll) than higher-stance vehicles. With the ES, though, ride quality depends on the tires.....I was not impressed at all with the optional 45s. The Avalon I sampled (done on the same ES platform), with taller-sidewall 55s, was noticeably smoother and quieter.
Back in 2017, I test drove 2012-18 6ES back to back with 2016-22 4RX.
The 6ES wore 215/55R17 Bridgestone Turanzas, while the 4RX rode on 235/55R20's; I can't remember what model Bridgestone tires the 4RX wore.
However, the 6ES had a lovely smooth absorbent ride and quietness, while the 4RX was IMO too firmly sprung, too firmly damped, the tires were so noisy, and because the RX's wheel tire unsprung mass combo is high, it always had this jiggly ride, and a whole lot more wind noise due to the vertical height from floor to roof with greater air compression and hence greater air pressures around the canopy.
The new 2018-24 7ES on the new platform, despite using sporty Dunlop SP Sport 050 235/45R18 tires, rides even better than old 6ES, and far far better than 2016-22 4RX tall wagon crossover.
This business about tall wagon crossovers matching sedans for performance, economy, braking, handling, ride and refinement - is nonsense - especially on forums which are more knowledgeable and pickier than laymen.
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Back in 2017, I test drove 2012-18 6ES back to back with 2016-22 4RX.
The 6ES wore 215/55R17 Bridgestone Turanzas, while the 4RX rode on 235/55R20's; I can't remember what model Bridgestone tires the 4RX wore.
However, the 6ES had a lovely smooth absorbent ride and quietness, while the 4RX was IMO too firmly sprung, too firmly damped, the tires were so noisy, and because the RX's wheel tire unsprung mass combo is high, it always had this jiggly ride, and a whole lot more wind noise due to the vertical height from floor to roof with greater air compression and hence air pressures around the canopy.
The new 2018-24 7ES on the new platform, despite using sporty Dunlop SP Sport 050 235/45R18 tires, rides even better than old 6ES, and far far better than 2016-22 4RX tall wagon crossover.
I know that some people disagree with me (I don't live in a vacuum), but I'm just not impressed with the 45s on the 7ES. The 55s on the (same-platform) 2019 Avalon were much nicer.
As for the RX, the 3Gen, with 60-series tires, though the sound-insulation on it was excellent, seemed firmer than the current-4Gen RX, which has 65s.
When you test-drove the 4Gen RX, did you sample an F-Sport? That could (?) explain why it may have felt stiffer to you, but not to me.
This business of tall wagon crossovers matching sedans for performance, economy, handling, ride and refinement - is nonsense - especially on forums which are more knowledgeable and pickier than layman.
I know that some people disagree with me (I don't live in a vacuum), but I'm just not impressed with the 45s on the 7ES. The 55s on the (same-platform) 2019 Avalon were much nicer.
As for the RX, the 3Gen, with 60-series tires, though the sound-insulation on it was excellent, seemed firmer than the current-4Gen RX, which has 65s.
When you test-drove the 4Gen RX, did you sample an F-Sport? That could (?) explain why it may have felt stiffer to you, but not to me.
In most cases, you are correct....not all.
I totally agree with you; on the same vehicle, the taller profiles always ride more comfortably and quietly - albeit at the expense to sharpness and handling.
I have driven all four generations of RX's; though never driven the 4RX in F Sport, but I did drive in a 3.5RX F Sport a long time ago - it was a really hunkered down ride.
IMO, none of the RX's ride as well compared to the same ES, due to the RX's larger rolling diameter for higher ground clearance, hence greater unsprung mass resulting in more momentum on impact.
Over the generations, I probably find that the ride and noise levels are getting worse and worse, especially with the current generation RX's.
IMO, they should stop fitting low profile tires on the base models, and have 1 Plus and 2 Plus options for those who want it.
I don't mind people saying that tall wagon CUV/SUV's are booming in sales, because they really are booming in sales.
However, I find it incorrect to pretend that tall wagon CUV/SUV's perform, brake, handle, ride, with efficiency and refinement to match traditional sedans.
It's like me pretending that tall profile tires handle and grip just as well as low profile tires.
I never say things like that, so I don't believe other people, especially those with good knowledge of motor vehicles should say that CUV/SUV's drive just as well as sedans today.
I mean, it is okay for mum or grandma to say that CUV/SUV's drive just as well as sedans.
On a different note:
1" lower Camry, and sales are down by 25%.
1" lower 5LS, and sales are down by probably 400%?
But the new sporty front mid-engine layout, new sporty tied down suspension, and new sporty aural noise - may have something to that too?
Why apply sports features across the range, only to watch sales succumb?
Why not just limit the sports features to only the F Sport trim?
I'm not sure if it was a good idea for new Camry, 5LS and Corolla sedans to be lowered by 1" - all three models with more compact interiors than their predecessors - unlike this thread's Subaru Legacy?
President Akio should be copying off this Subaru Legacy sedan with its 59" height?
Though forthcoming 2020-25 Legacy might have been lowered? Looks the same height. Hard to tell. Certainly more rounded edges.
New 2020-25 Legacy just a major update really.
Does your friend prefer to get a great run-out deal on current Legacy, or wait for the all new Legacy with bigger touchscreen etc?
The Legacy sedan has always been a bit of a red headed step child in the Subaru lineup. Shame really, because it is a good car. Subaru was a crossover company before people even knew what CUVs were. This version actually fixes the oddball styling of the previous sedans so it's a great choice for people who don't like wagons/hatchbacks and SUVs. Of course it's a niche seller.
That won't bother the folks at Fuji Heavy Industries though (now Fuji Corp). They sell boatloads of Foresters, Outbacks and Ascents. Subaru went to market with CUVs when GM and Ford were still pumping out dinosaur age truck-based SUVs.
Back in the early 1990's when I purchased my Mazda 626 2.5 V6, the Legacies were a neat looking car that used to sell really well with a peak of over 68,000 units/year USA.
After that, the Legacy sales dwindled down to a low of just 22k/yr in 2007 and 2008.
However, the current 2015-20 Legacy in this thread rekindled peak sales to a lusty 65,000+ units in 2016.
Back in the early 1990's when I purchased my Mazda 626 2.5 V6, the Legacies were a neat looking car that used to sell really well with a peak of over 68,000 units/year USA.
After that, the Legacy sales dwindled down to a low of just 22k/yr in 2007 and 2008.
However, the current 2015-20 Legacy in this thread rekindled peak sales to a lusty 65,000+ units in 2016.
One of my condo-neighbors has one she's still driving, although it does look its age LOL.
Subaru was a crossover company before people even knew what CUVs were.
No arguments there. If one discounts the original AMC Eagle and Eagle SX-4 from 1980-82, the 1995 Outback was the original car-based crossover with unibody and full-time AWD. Audi, of course, had their Quattro AWD vehicles dating back to the 1980s, but IMO you couldn't consider them true crossovers until later.
Admittedly off the topic of Subaru, but anyone remember these? The 4WD Tercel. I think they were available from 1982-1987 or something close to that. The plaid interior rocked.
Admittedly off the topic of Subaru, but anyone remember these? The 4WD Tercel. I think they were available from 1982-1987 or something close to that. The plaid interior rocked.
Yep....I remember them quite well. At the time, a very similar Honda Civic AWD Wagon and Nissan Stanza AWD wagon were also in the American market.
I don't specifically remember test-driving these three specific models, but I do remember test-drives of other versions of the Tercel, Civic, and Stanza. At the time, I was driving a Mazda GLC competitor.
06-11-19, 04:07 PM
All else equal, a lower center of gravity usually does mean better handling (and less body roll) than higher-stance vehicles. With the ES, though, ride quality depends on the tires.....I was not impressed at all with the optional 45s. The Avalon I sampled (done on the same ES platform), with taller-sidewall 55s, was noticeably smoother and quieter.
