Rumor: Lexus And Toyota Will Use Mazda Rear-Drive Platform, Inline Six
06-20-19, 08:53 PM
#16
Lexus Fanatic
06-20-19, 09:52 PM
#17
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
I'm aware that this is just a rumor but I've got a good feeling that it's legitimate. Toyota and Mazda already have a great working relationship, their deal with BMW forbids Lexus from getting access to the Zupra parts bin, and they've already shown a propensity towards these types of tie-ups with Subaru and BMW.
I think you're going to see a lot more of this sharing in the next 10 years. Nobody knows exactly how electrification will go, but spending the money developing new engines and platforms is going to look increasingly like buggy whip manufacturing to the bean counters.
I think you're going to see a lot more of this sharing in the next 10 years. Nobody knows exactly how electrification will go, but spending the money developing new engines and platforms is going to look increasingly like buggy whip manufacturing to the bean counters.
06-21-19, 12:42 AM
#18
Personally, I think it is the other way around. Rather than Lexus using a Mazda RWD platform, it will be Mazda using the Toyota/Lexus RWD platform. Here is my reasoning.
Mazda is small, with very limited resources, especially now that it no longer has big brother Ford helping it out. Yet, Mazda is spending a lot developing new internal combustion engines, especially the compression-ignition SkyActiv-X (4-cylinder) engine. We have already heard that Mazda wants to build Inline-6 cylinder engines (for use in RWD cars), which is theoretically easy by adding 2 additional cylinders to an I4 engine. With some incremental costs, Mazda has an I6 engine.
But will Mazda have enough resources left to develop a brand-new RWD platform (which are very expensive to develop) for a relatively small fleet of vehicles? I am not sure. Giant Toyota, however, already has developed a new TNGA RWD platform. Toyota, acting as big brother to the small, independent Japanese automakers, including Mazda (which it is already doing by sharing EV technology with them), could share its TNGA RWD platform with Mazda (or help Mazda develop its RWD vehicles using Toyota's RWD platform).
This Mazda-Toyota/Lexus joint venture RWD vehicle using Mazda's I6 engine and Toyota's RWD platform could then be shared by Mazda and Toyota/Lexus.
Mazda is small, with very limited resources, especially now that it no longer has big brother Ford helping it out. Yet, Mazda is spending a lot developing new internal combustion engines, especially the compression-ignition SkyActiv-X (4-cylinder) engine. We have already heard that Mazda wants to build Inline-6 cylinder engines (for use in RWD cars), which is theoretically easy by adding 2 additional cylinders to an I4 engine. With some incremental costs, Mazda has an I6 engine.
But will Mazda have enough resources left to develop a brand-new RWD platform (which are very expensive to develop) for a relatively small fleet of vehicles? I am not sure. Giant Toyota, however, already has developed a new TNGA RWD platform. Toyota, acting as big brother to the small, independent Japanese automakers, including Mazda (which it is already doing by sharing EV technology with them), could share its TNGA RWD platform with Mazda (or help Mazda develop its RWD vehicles using Toyota's RWD platform).
This Mazda-Toyota/Lexus joint venture RWD vehicle using Mazda's I6 engine and Toyota's RWD platform could then be shared by Mazda and Toyota/Lexus.
06-21-19, 01:54 AM
#19
Lexus Test Driver
If true, I don't take this as good news. Lexus/Toyota is known for their engines and overall reliability. That is a huge draw for many fans of the brand, including myself. I rather not see Mazda or anyone else muddy up their long-standing formula. It would make more sense Toyota sharing an engine with Mazda, not the other way around.
Also strange to make an announcement about a possible engine change taking place sometime AFTER the new IS debuts. The whole thing sounds far-fetched.
Also strange to make an announcement about a possible engine change taking place sometime AFTER the new IS debuts. The whole thing sounds far-fetched.
06-21-19, 02:55 AM
#21
Super Moderator
That is the rumor, especially now that it's been confirmed that they're working on a straight six. Transverse-mounted I-6s are exceedingly rare, the Volvo S60/V60/XC60 being the only relatively modern ones I'm aware of. And a FWD-based car with a longitudinally-mounted I-6 would have a front overhang like a 1970s Cadillac.
06-21-19, 05:58 AM
#22
The push towards electrification and autonomous makes anything related to RWD inline six cars difficult to justify from one manufacturer alone. This tie up could bring some more fun vehicles back into the lineup for Toyota not to mention Mazda. I'm for this.
06-21-19, 06:21 AM
#23
I agree. It would also be great for Mazda from a brand image standpoint. Mazda has been building great cars with reliable engines since their partnership with Ford ended, but many won't even look at a new Mazda because of what came out of the Ford partnership. And plenty of people consider most Toyota and Lexus vehicles to be nothing but reliable appliances. Mazda shakes its unreliable reputation by partnering with the most reliable automaker, and Toyota shakes the "boring appliance" image by partnering with an automaker that prides itself on the driver experience. This is a win-win for both companies on many different levels.
06-21-19, 06:28 AM
#24
Pole Position
Lexus will introduce a new model to slot between the $64,750 RC and the $92,950 LC employing Mazda's architecture and engine. Best Car says the model will act as a "next car" for RC owners.
https://www.autoblog.com/2019/06/20/...gine-platform/
https://www.autoblog.com/2019/06/20/...gine-platform/
06-21-19, 07:02 AM
#25
Pole Position
Toyota will not put their legendary reliability in jeopardy without fully vetting Mazda's engine if this alliance actually happens. Toyota wouldn't even entertain something like this if they thought it would hurt their brand.
06-21-19, 08:56 AM
#26
Lexus Champion
I don't think Toyota needs Mazda to build fun-to-drive cars.
Toyota builds the most-efficient -- both powerful and fuel efficient -- engines (Dynamic Force engines run at 40% efficiency, closing in on diesel efficiency). Toyota does not need Mazda for engines.
06-21-19, 09:20 AM
#27
Lexus Fanatic
Toyota has lost their damn mind why bother putting the corporate badge on some of their vehicles.
06-21-19, 09:48 AM
#28
Lexus Fanatic
Toyota already rebadges a Mazda. The entry level Yaris is a Mazda.
06-21-19, 11:24 AM
#29
Lexus Fanatic
06-21-19, 12:52 PM
#30
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I think the way we can see the results of Mazda building a reliable I6 engine for Toyota might be by seeing how long the B58 lasts in the Supra. If the B58 can last pretty long with Toyota's quality control and testing of the engine in the factory. Then we don't need to worry about the reliability of the Mazda I6. I still miss Toyota built I6 engines, but we will see if this is a good business decision from Toyota or not.