Toys4RJill

BMW and Mercedes have gone transverse as well for the entry level. It’s the same thing for them all. Mercedes has two, FWD sedans such as the A and CLA class. BMW X1 and X2 are FWD.

EZZ

BMW 2 series are also FWD.

Och

iTrader: (3)

No they are not, only the 2 series sedan is FWD, 2 series coupes are RWD.

EZZ

I should have said some 2 series are FWD. I don't know if they will keep the RWD variants in the future though and they are pretty long in the tooth.

Toys4RJill

Thanks. I don’t keep track of everything. The whole tier 1 or tier 2 thing is lame IMO. Mercedes sells Metries and work vans out of the same dealers as they do A class and Mayback convertibles. BMW is not as bad, pretty low end van by MB, are they ever criticized?. I just look at them all as luxury brands. Each brand has its core strengths and its weakness.

Och

iTrader: (3)

They are not long in the tooth, they are the best models BMW makes. New 2 series coupe is going to be RWD as well.

EZZ

They were released in late 2013 / early 2014 so over 5 years old. Thats getting old in car years The interior feels a bit dated...i sat in one back to back with the new 2 series and its decidedly old school. Of course i'm not much of a fan of the new BMW interiors but they are admittedly more modern.

SW17LS

Its a totally different situation. Yes Mercedes and BMW have FWD cars at the low end, but they are not clone economy and mainstream platforms and suspensions, etc....the bulk of their sales dont come from those models...and they are still aggressively innovating and developing higher end platforms. Look at all the new product MB and BMW have rolled out that are proper longitudinal RWD layout vehicles in the last 18 months. Lexus has developed NOTHING, other than a convertible version of the LC. No new IS, no new GS, no new RC, no RWD GA-L SUVs....90% of what they sell are upmarket Rav-4s, upmarket Highlanders, upmarket Corollas and upmarket Avalons at this point.

You need to look at the new product and drive the new product and how terribly behind Lexus is becomes very clear. They truly do compete with Acura and Kia and Buick now while having a few upmarket options like the LS and LC, and ancient truck based SUVs that dont really compete with anybody. They dont have any serious entry in any of the sport sedans or high end SUV segments whatsoever.

If things dont change after 22 years this will absolutely be my last Lexus product. They don't have one vehicle that interests me at this point outside of the LC, which isn't a practical vehicle for me today. At BMW or Mercedes or Audi, there are literally 3-4 serious options for me just within each brand. MB I could do an S Class, GLE or GLS, perhaps even a CLS. BMW I could do a 7 Series, X5 or X7, Perhaps an 8 GC. Audi I could do the A8, Q7 or Q8. Lexus...I could do another LS but I wouldnt because of the dynamic choices they've made. No SUV I would buy.

Toys4RJill

What is interesting about the Mercedes Benz is that the A-Class really is a low-end vehicle. Sold all over the world, starting a 107hp. Engine is collaboration with Nissan/Renault. Comes with a beam rear axle in many configurations. It is what it is

SW17LS

Oh yeah, MB sells cars that arent high end by any stretch of the imagination elsewhere in the world

geko29

They also sell (in some countries) an X Class, which is nothing more than a Nissan Frontier with a three-pointed star on the hood. I think it's almost like they were in a similar but opposite situation of where Toyota was in the 80s--A full-line luxury manufacturer who also wants to sell some cheaper, non-luxury products--and they've simply made a different decision. Rather than spin off a new, low-end brand, they've just kept these other entrants under the MB umbrella. Kind of like if Toyota had brought the Crown, Altezza, etc to the US instead of launching Lexus.

Toys4RJill

If you go outside of the US, Mercedes has three FWD vehicles, the A, B and CLA class. They also sell camper vans that are rebadge Dodge Sprinters or Freightliner Sprinters. You also get the Mercedes Metris van....come to Canada, and you see all of this. People forget, that Mercedes is also mainstream to some people..Such as Mercedes Benz small pickups that are in the same class as a Hilux, including5 row people moving vans that are in the same class a Chevrolet Express. You just don't see these vehicles in the USA, you see them practically everywhere else in the world.

I completely agree. There also lower grade G-class models that are in the same segment as the Land Cruiser work models.

Och

iTrader: (3)

MB or BMW do not have mainstream daughter brands, so they sell a few downmarket models to attract young buyers and make a few quick bucks.

On the other hand Toyota created Lexus as its premium brand, but all they currently sell are barely souped up Toyotas.

SW17LS

Agreed. Toyota is completely squandering the whole purpose of having a Lexus brand in the first place.

Hyundai gets it, why can’t Toyota?

Toys4RJill

I still remember this thread. At this point, the incredible cash on hand for Toyota will put them in incredible position once this COVID-19 disaster is in the clear. While I don't believe Toyota ever saw a global pandemic coming, I do believe they were expecting an economic downturn at some point, and here it comes. I have always maintained that models such as 4Runner, Land Cruiser, LX, Tundra, Tacoma and then Lexus with IS, or GS and GX and many delayed engines were delayed with intention of a downturn.