mmarshall

See my reply to EZZ above on what I meant by Dark Ages. Company-owned sales outlets, for auto-manufacturers, have never worked in a large scale.

mmarshall

One problem is that, as Jill (correctly) points out, they don't have the manufacturing capacity to produce large numbers of vehicles without speeding things up, on the assembly line, to the point where you have QC problems. Lots of people have bought Teslas and have had annoying issues...and those issues have also been costly for the company to address.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

Yeah well Bob Lutz is also from the Dark Ages. He also recently praised the Tesla 3 profusely though.

Another false strawman. They can’t produce large numbers of vehicles without speeding things up leading to quality problems? the company’s had quality issues for sure, and definitely did some ‘frantic’ round the clock production runs with rumors saying they cut corners, but what has happened in the past doesn’t make it so it will continue happening. Some additional points: 1) it seems their quality is getting better and better as they work out the kinks. 2) They’re likely to ship 400,000 vehicles this year, which is a LOT by anyone’s measure. 3) It seems like the vast majority of owners are ecstatic about their Teslas, yes even despite a quality glitch here and there, especially on early ones.

You and LexCTJill seem to only see the future through the past, and only what’s worked in the past can work going forward... well respectfully that’s nonsense. Sometimes giant changes happen and we’re not going back. 50 years ago your Mac laptop and the internet would have been considered ‘magic’. 40 years ago everyone used a travel agent to arrange travel. 30 years ago Lasik eye surgery was pretty much unheard of and people rented VHS tapes. 20 years ago, no one was talking to their phones, speakers, cars, and people rented DVDs. 10 years ago, hardly anyone had LED lighting in their homes.

Tesla IS a game changer. More electric vehicles are coming from other makers BECAUSE Tesla lead the way. Now pioneers often end up failing, and I expect they will issue more stock and bonds to raise money for cashflow which will likely depress the stock price, but I think they’re now past any risk of bankruptcy, short of Elon Musk dying, or major scandal. The upcoming model y will sell briskly, and rumor is they’re going to show the pickup truck very soon, although in my opinion tesla shows upcoming vehicles WAAAY too early, but it will restore the faith by the faithful, and probably give a stock blip too.

Like all brands, Tesla vehicles aren’t for everyone, but they’re becoming viable for more people every day, and the financial argument is VERY compelling (no gas, little maintenance). I think the biggest threat to electric cars is regulatory... the stronger Tesla and other electic vehicle sales become, the more likely a tax on them will come about to pay for roads, which may hamper sales.

EZZ

Extremely well said. Lets forget the confines of the past and look toward the future. Anyone wishing Elon be removed as CEO is crazy and NOT what the shareholders want. He is the heart and soul of the company and it will be fun and exciting in the next decade on what's about to happen.

Toys4RJill

What fun is this forum if we all just agree. I like seeing the more challenging points of view. As for your examples, if you do not think I believe that EVs are the future, they you have misunderstood me. I think Tesla has a place as a premium electric car provider. I do not think the direct sales to customers will succeed. I am not sure if Telsa would succeed as an everyday persons brand, the model 3 is working out prety well . As for the top end, which is a place where they dominate, I am sure Mercedes Benz, Cadillac, BMW all have electric models coming for the C class models up to their S class and amg or m power accordingly. It has been an interesting discussion. From it all I did some research and had no idea Toyota and Telsa had a small partnership for a while, there was even MB car supplied by Tesla batteries. Have a good night. It was interesting reading some of your responses.

mmarshall

I disagree. He gave us some very good products. I have read his articles and listened to his interviews. He knows his stuff. He also has experience at a number of different auto companies.

Wrong. If that was the case, we'd both be driving vehicles wth carburetors, breaker-point-ignition, drum brakes, and recirculating-ball steering. Sometimes change is good......sometimes it isn't.


Exactly. I don't disagree with that. Change is sometimes inevitable. And that applies to Tesla as well. Sooner or later, Tesla will have to make one of those big changes.......to private franchises. They can't live forever with something that is no longer working. State laws will eventually force it....or, they will just lose out on sales in that state.

AsI see it, the biggest threat, at least outside of California, is lack of an adequate charging-infrastructure. You can't have Queen Bees without the drones. ....although the 63,000 figure you quoted in the other thread is at least a start.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

thanks for that.

he may have given us good products decades ago, but he is now EIGHTY SEVEN years old. impressive he’s doing anything at his advanced age.

almost every thread you make a comment waxing nostalgic about or how bad some cars were from the 50s-70s.

but glad to see you appreciate fuel injection, disc brakes, etc. EVs do away with fuel entirely, and with regenerative brakes, a car’s actual brakes hardly get used and will likely last the life of the car. That’s real progress.

we’ll just leave it that’s your opinion and projection.

mmarshall

He was also a Marine Corps fighter pilot. You can't fly planes like that if you are a flunkee....that takes a considerable amount of skill.



I absolutely HATED carburators...particularly the crap 2-barrel Carter AFBs that Chrysler used during the 1960s, and the (later) electronic-feedback/emission-control carbs that ran on mixtures that were way too lean for stumble-free drivability, and with chokes/butterfly-valves that would constantly malfunction or stick. I also didn't care for breaker-point ignitions, and having to do major tune-ups every 6 months to a year. If you remember, I did a Car Chat thread, several years ago, on what I thought were the most important automotive advances of my lifetime....EFI, electronic ignition/computerized engine control, and car-based AWD topped the list, in that order.

As for brakes, I know I've posted this picture before, but THIS is what made me appreciate disc brakes and multi-speed transmission / downhill-braking-effects.....the descent from the top of Chestnut Ridge/Summit Mountain, on U.S. 40, into Uniontown, PA. Absolutely scared me stiff the first time I drove it, as an 18-year-old on this first solo long trip alone, in an old 1960s-vintage compact wth a manual transmission. Three miles of an almost constant 10% grade. This famous hill is so steep, and so long, that auto companies used to do testing on it, many years ago, for engines, transmissions, brakes, and cooling systems.





Agreed. Neither of us are getting anywhere arguing about it. And I know I can tend to get long-winded sometimes.

TripleL

I understand the article is from March but just to update as of July 19th RI now has a dealer as they were able to battle through the process and open a store https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/thre...w-open.160176/

As for the test drives I'm a little curious. Tesla still has its test drive page https://www.tesla.com/drive It instructs to sign up or go to the dealer for a drive. So if I do either of those they will not allow a test drive but instead sell me a car for a 7 day test drive?

Allen K

iTrader: (4)

If you can make your way to a store, they have demo units to test drive. If you don't then you can do the 7 day test drive

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

by that '7 day test drive' you mean buy the car, and in theory you can return it if you don't like it. well some people are finding out the fine print makes that difficult. apparently you can't if there's any 'incentives' on the vehicle, including state tax rebate credits!

tex2670

Says who?

Why should Tesla have an independent dealer network just because "that's how it's always been done"? Apple doesn't franchise their stores--they've done ok in the free market enterprise. There's plenty of successful companies that don't franchise, and "micro manage" from a corporate level. And guess what--there's plenty of franchises that "micro manage" at a corporate level.

I don't understand the protectionism for franchised dealers.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

thanks. yes, there's still 'stores' (which i think are typically service locations too), but apparently you can't actually order a car there, you have to do that online?

Allen K

iTrader: (4)

Better to make your way to a showroom then

oldcajun

The old franchised dealer model is much like the brick and mortar stores of the past. The Tesla direct sales model is more like Amazon. Who's stock would you rather own, Sears or Amazon?