Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

Why? Why should Lexus keep giving a bargain? This is not 1992. They are an established luxury brand and Lexus deserves to price their cars in line with the competition. Let's not forget there are currently still more standard features on Lexus's vs equivalent German models. A loaded GS500 would certainly command $70-76K

Lwerewolf

I wouldn't call the 450h outdated, even though it's very dated by modern standards. The only current hybrids more advanced than the 450h are the ls/lc500h and the crown s220 3.5l hybrid. Everybody else (well, with the exception of Ford, and anybody who's using Toyota's HSD system) pretty much has a reguar auto box with an electric motor somewhere in there, with maaaybe a "big" battery (usually with dubious cooling/life estimates, not that Toyota's li-poly cooling solution is much better from what I've seen) for plugin duties. The only other out-of-the-box hybrid that I can think of is the koenigsegg regera.

Power-aside, the 450h's problems IMO are:
1) No convenient way to turn off traction control, due to potential inverter spark problems (not that I've read of anybody actually breaking anything even with stupidly high wheel speed burnouts)
2) No factory LSD... combined with an overzealous VDIM & snappy power delivery = you get locked out of power quite often, even on seemingly good roads.
3) Dynamics when the battery is depleted, and low speed power. These are kind-of tied - due to the way that the transmission works & is geared, the engine can't really reach max RPM & power until the "2nd stage" of the CVT (the 2nd gear of the MG2 motor) kicks in, so full bore starts are a bit slow even if you have perfect traction conditions. AC motors have a limit of around ~13k rpm (oversimplified, read up on it if you want). The 4-stage "10 speed" system on the ls/lc/s220 should have solved this.
4) No real "sport" mode with control of the ratios and always holding the engine in the highest possible RPM.
5) Brakes. Seriously, it needs a switch to provide mechanical breaking only with the pedal. The transition can't be made linear due to a ton of varying factors and that's it.

EXE46

Sorry bud this is false, the M340 is faster than all previous M3 except the F80 so it's no poseur. It has M diff, bigger brakes, special exhaust, etc. Also, I saw a video where it manages to pull similar numbers to the GSF and that was the AWD model. With a simple tune, the car will be doing over 500HP. The M340I is basically a baby M, it is much faster than the F30 340i. Same also holds true for the C43 AMG which is the only real competitor to the M340I. A good driver can pull sub 4 seconds 0-60 times in the M340XI.

G70 is let down by the crappy hyundai transmission, go test drive one and you'll see, a good engine without a good transmission doesn't make a great drivers car.

joshthorsc

Nailed it. Lexus thinks the same old rules also apply to Toyota.customers that if it doesn't break, then don't fix it. They could do what Porsche does and slowly improve on the car but no, toyota keeps thing very ancient and that's where I left the Toyota/Lexus band.

EZZ

I've ridden in M4s and they feel special. Very loud exhaust and great pull. The M340 I played with didn't nearly seem as loud. When I was test driving cars, I priced one out and it was $65k for the options I wanted. Too much. I also test drive the S4 but not the Mercedes. My cousin has a C63 AMG so I'm familiar with the speed. The Model 3 Performance got my money because I felt it could blow away both the M4 and C63. It felt waaaay faster than both so it got my money and was $10k cheaper. My friends F30 340 was mid $50k. Is the new one worth $10k more? This is the reason I felt it is overpriced.

UDel

F Sport is already pretty loaded, it is very unlikely GS's selling for the past few years were priced close to or at 60K.

Sounds like you don't understand the market, nobody is buying a GS whether it is hybrid or not priced in the low to mid 60's or 70's now or for years, very few are buying GS's priced under 50 to low 50's and you are thinking a upgraded 6 cylinder engine with a $20,000 premium over a base V6 which already puts out decent power is going to sell well. It won't sell if they price it like that, the new LS is not selling priced in the 70's, what makes you think a much older GS priced at 70K is going to sell just because it has the LS's engine. A GS500 with the LS500's engine or a 420hp V8 would have to have a attractive price to attract interest and buyers, it does not matter that they have priced a hybrid F sport so high, nobody buys it or the base hybrid version, same with the GS-F, people are not going to pay a lot of money for a GS. The engine upgrade should only be a 4-5K premium at most if they want to really boost sales and interest.

patgilm

My M340ix's MSRP was about $67k, I special ordered mine and with the discount and rebates it was $58k. No way I would spend MSRP on a M340 and the lease numbers were pretty good so it made it an easier decision. When you test drove the M340 did you have it in sport mode? If not, it is pretty quiet but sport mode makes it a good bit louder.

EZZ

$58k is a great price. Guess my dealer wasn't budging much. The sound is good. Better than the F30 but the M3 is louder. I wouldn't put the two in the same category. I liked the S5 SB the most because of the look but the BMW has the best tranny and engine combo. Not a fan of that weird digital gauge cluster. Also, my buddies BMWs rattle like crazy. My Tesla doesn't have a single rattle. Do all BMWs rattle? Drives me nuts.

peteharvey

Just as it took nearly 13 years to develop 5LS, I think it will take longer than the usual 7 years to develop 5GS - and rightly so.

My theory is that Lexus is very appropriately coming up with a 5GS with a full BEV option!
To take on the likes of the Tesla Model S etc.

Teslas are great in the driveline department, however they have essentially NO experience in producing the body of the motor vehicle.
Lexus will combine an EV driveline with a body coming from an experienced producer.
.

EXE46

EZZ you need to take another test drive in the M340i or better yet find one that's broken in. I just signed for one today should be here in a few days coming from TX. MSRP was just under 61K. RWD model with leather and drivers assistance pack ( got this since it has the BSM), plus spare tire and non run flats and other options.

You really don't need to spend more for unnecessary luxury appointments and extra weight. Even the base model already has Navi, BBK, adaptive led headlights etc and those are like 58k. Also, exhaust only gets better after it's broken in, lots of crackles and pops in this car.

EZZ

I admit the G20 is a lot better than the F30 but I was sticker shocked. Unfortunately, I test drive the Performance 3 and that was that. Have you test driven a P3D? I'd be interested how it compare to your 340. You can beat the hell out of the Model 3 on test drives because those models are usually selected for demo use only.

EXE46

^
No, i have not, do they offer test drives on that? I will see if i can do that in Miami...

EZZ

Yes. They even let you have it for a couple hours. May not be your cup of tea but it will be fun trying it out.

MattyG

Well the GS is 7 years old at this point, so you're right - they should have done something with it by now. But there are no spy shots and no leaks about anything. And if you browse over to the 5LS forum, there is no rumor about an electric 5LS, instead the rumor is about a Mirai inspired hydrogen fuel cell LS!

peteharvey

Sorry about typing error.
I meant to say I suspect next gen 5GS [not 5LS] will be available in full EV.