bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

there's a lot of amazing things going on (good and bad) in the Chinese automotive market. i'm not totally up to speed, but wanted to share some things.

the Chinese auto market crashed in the past year or so, at least partly due to trade battles with the U.S., but probably other macro forces at work in China's gigantic economy.

the Chinese auto market is (still) about 30% of the global market

tons of models from makers the world over now debut IN CHINA first.

tons of models from makers are made for ONLY the Chinese market.

tons of models from makers offer features ONLY in the Chinese market.

2 Chinese auto companies, BAIC and Geely, now own 5% and 10% respectively, of Daimler (parent of Mercedes Benz).




so to say the Chinese auto market is important and very dynamic, would be giant understatements.

what do you know, your thoughts?

Toys4RJill

Unfair business practices with China. For example, Toyota cant just open up and makes cars in China, they need to do a joint venture with a Chinese company/gov subsidiary. Tech is easily stolen.

That said. China will dominate electric car production. Eventually the vehicle engineering jobs will move to China too.

Just my opinion on the matter.

mmarshall

I certainly won't argue with their tastes in vehicles.

spwolf

Market went down due to the government crackdown on unsecured lending, which mostly affected Chinese companies.
Ford especially affected because it is US company.




Japanese doing well since they are besties now.

Otherwise very similar market to the US, where they love large cars.

Sulu

Yes, that is a matter of opinion. The fact that no foreign company can enter China and start doing business without a domestic joint venture partner can be seen as protecting itself; it is also a method of controlled transfer of knowledge.

China, prior to the revolution in the mid-20th century, had seen much exploitation by western powers. So it can be seen that trying to control foreign companies from doing unfettered business in China is trying to protect its own interests.

China is also aware that it had closed itself off from the rest of the world for much of the 20th Century while the west progressed technologically. It was aware that it had to learn and had much to learn. Forced transfers of knowledge through joint ventures is a legal way of learning. Yes, there is the theft of intellectual property, but that is a related but different matter (and perhaps unavoidable, to an extent).

There was also theft by Japanese automakers 3, 4 and 5 decades ago, in the form of copying western vehicles, but we seem to have forgotten that. From that, the Japanese automakers learned and now see where they are. The same is happening (but probably now at the tail end) with the Korean automakers.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

there's theft from mimicry if that's what you mean, but that's not what the Chinese have been up to for decades. they've invested heavily in spies, cyber data theft, bribery, etc. not only in autos of course but in pretty much all u.s. fields. they've probably stolen the equivalent of trillions of dollars in intellectual capital value.

regardless, the chinese have gotten away with it.

they're systematically on a roll toward world economic (and military) domination and the u.s. is too stupid to stop it because it's complacent and has never dealt with a real and huge threat like this. not getting into politics here though.

peteharvey

I heard that many decades ago, they paid some American person millions of dollars for a copy of the blueprints for the atomic bomb.

This is the real reason why Lexus has held off assembling Lexiis in China, but I don't know why Lexus has recently done an about face, and agreed to assemble hybrids in China?

Toys4RJill

How exactly would the U.S. stop it?

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

maybe they've decided the opportunity is too large to miss out, despite the risks.

peteharvey

I guess it could also be because they realize that gasoline-electric hybrids have reached their ceiling, and the future is actually in full electric.
Make a final few dollars on hybrids, before it is replaced by full electric.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

good point. i think in 5-10 years we'll be thinking of hybrids as a kind of frankenstein drivetrain.

mmarshall

^^^^ That's what they told us 20 years ago, when we first started seeing hybrids in the U.S.

Toys4RJill

Toyota is entering the China market for production as China will be where everything EV is going to be made going forward. OEM manufacturers will not even be making electric motors in house. Most of it will all be outsourced and built in China and exported out either fulling assembled or exported as parts to be built domestically wherever that may be. A complete paradigm shift is on the horizon with EVs. It is of my opinion that no other country in the world will be able to rival China for EV parts creation and production.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

^^^ good post, and pretty dire prediction as auto production is a huge employer in many parts of the developed world.

i also see china essentially taking over parts of places in africa, and they can ‘expand’ there too.

grabber2

I'm currently in China and notice their newer generation cars/SUV are quite an improvement compare to their previous gen. Examples from Geely and BYD are somewhat on par with Kia/Hyundai . They might still have a lot to work on safety/reliability, but their technologies are pretty on par with the rest of the world. To some extend, Chinese auto companies are more willing to try out newer technology since they have nothing to lose if it do not work out.