EZZ

The drivetrain is the vaaaast majority of scheduled maintenance cost. Oil, transmission, differentials, brakes, power steering, spark plugs, O2 sensors, fuel lines...should I keep going? The other crap in the car is way cheaper to maintain. You've basically taken out 90% of the maintenance by removing the ICE component. Hahaha.

Toys4RJill

Fuel lines do not have scheduled maintenance and neither do O2 sensors. Transmissions are now sealed for Toyota. There are no power steering fluids on new designs that are electric. So that leaves, oil, diffs, brakes (Tesla requires), spark splugs (120K). Tesla still has coolants that need to be changed so that is a wash. Same with brake line fluid.

LeX2K

Electric water pump, electric steering, electric vacuum boost. Hmmm I wonder what's going on here it's almost like electric motors are better and more efficient at things. That's the funny thing to me electric motors and electronics in general are the only reason a petrol burner is still viable, but moving to a completely electric car is somehow terrible.

142 billion gallons of gas are burned every year in the United States even if we took that gas and used it to generate electricity for BEVs (not exactly the most efficient method) consumption would drop by half.

mmarshall

Of course not. I mentioned it on ICEs because it is technically part of the drivetrain.



I learned to drive on 60s-vintage cars....both manual and automatic transmissions. I've had my license for 50 years.

EZZ

The scheduled maintenance at a dealer to service my IS350 with oil changes, and brakes in 1 year exceeded the Tesla scheduled maintenance for 5 years. I will be expected to pay $400 in battery coolant service in 5 years.

My brakes were roasted after 12k miles which cost me $500. I had 2 oil changes in that time period which were about $150 total. That's in a year of ownership. At 5 years, I was paying for all types of service such as rear differentials, spark plugs, and other issues like battery going out. I paid a total of $3k on maintenance on my IS350 in those 5 years. Far cry from $400 on battery coolant. Sad thing is the Model 3 is several tiers higher than the is350 and has a fraction of the cost. Visit the Tesla forums and many members have paid almost nothing in total maintenance cost. It's indisputable that EVs will be much lower to maintain. Arguing this is unreasonable.

Toys4RJill

I have no issues with ICE engines moving to electric parts. And a complete electric vehicle is not terrible either.

Och

iTrader: (3)

The big three have over a century of experience in engineering and producing bodywork and fittings - yet until maybe 5-10 years ago everything that they produced was utter garbage.

peteharvey

Unlike Tesla, the Chinese have little experience with batteries, electric motors or supercharger networks, yet the Chinese just came up with this:

https://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/n...ng-lap-record/

Tesla has just 4.9 billion dollars in equity [assets less liabilities] - just imagine what someone like Toyota Motor Corp with $200 billion dollars in equity, or Daimler AG with 80 billion dollars in equity, or BMW AG with 64 billion dollars in equity - could do to batteries, electric motors and supercharger networks???

The big players just aren't trying very hard.
If they wanted to, they would just walk over Tesla - like you stepping on an ant...

EZZ

So they are producing less efficient, slower, less range, electric cars on purpose

The more likely answer is that Tesla had brilliant engineering that caught the entire industry off guard. It's irrefutable that Tesla has a lead on EV technology. People keep saying the big boys will crush them if they want. Well, it's all talk until they bring the goods.

peteharvey

Yes, they are purposefully starting from the bottom and working their way up.
The big players could instantly crush liddle Tesla.
Don't you worry - bigger battery capacities, faster 0-60, and bigger supercharging networks - will come over time.

Just look at what a Chinese young upstart with neither experience nor money can archieve with EV's on the Nurburgring:
https://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/n...ng-lap-record/

The big players are unlikely rush flawed products onto the market with poor reliability recommendations on Consumer Reports.
https://techcrunch.com/2019/02/21/te...lity-problems/

We race to the top. Why race to the bottom?
The first thing Tesla will fix is what we can see on the outside.
However, Tesla will take its time fixing what we cannot see underneath!

Notice how LS400 took till 1989 to get onto the market - but then it went for the jugular...
.

EZZ

Tesla was the disruptor and showed the auto companies the way. They now have a blueprint but they are essentially fast followers so they will get there. Even with all that capital, it's taking them awhile because they aren't EV experts and don't kid yourself, their best efforts are ETron and iPace and it still isn't Model S efficient or good Mind boggling how such big companies lack in innovation

Tesla is headed for full autonomy and not really in the same race as the other auto companies. They are doing verticalization because they want to be a robo taxi company. I could see them not sell a single consumer car when full autonomy is released.

situman

I'm not so sure about this. As cars get more and more complicated and computerized, the average indie car shop may not have the proper tools and equipment to diagnose and repair those cars. According to everyone's favorite youtuber Scotty K, if a BMW or Benz's battery dies, you need to go to the dealer to reset all the electronics. That can't be cheap right?

EZZ

In an EV world, it will be tough to generate the sort of revenue that ICE cars bring in due to the lack of maintenance items. I imagine a Toyota EV could go 5 years without any maintenance except tire rotations. Hahaha.

It's a ways away of course but if I were a franchise dealer, I'd be looking to sell my business in the next 5-10 years and go into something else. With these big shifts coming, It's a pretty risky time for the dealers.

coolsaber

The tesla sales model and the dealership model are two sides of the same coin.


"Teslas Sales model is transperent with pricing"
Tesla is transparent, in the sense that, they have removed dealerships aka middlemen from knowing how their pricing works. Most folks believe that dealerships are inherently evil, and they are less trustworthy then automakers. If you remove the "evil middlemen" you deal with a trustworthy automaker. Ideally true, but in business that's not. Everyone is out for their bottom-line.

For instance, why do inventory Teslas, sell for far less then what the same build costs to a customer? Why do they have tacked on unadvertised discounts, sometimes totaling over $20K or more that you must call your sales rep from tesla to find out about?

I think the idea here is, by removing middlemen, Tesla does not have to deal with the electric vehicle sold by a sleazy evil stereotype, but that doesn't mean the customer is getting transparent pricing. He or she maybe paying sticker for that vehicle while the informed customer, who choose to do their research gets it for less. Sounding familiar?

"Dealerships allow for choice"
The only thing dealerships do well for the end customer is allow for choice. Folks can walk in and pay sticker or folks can do their homework and get the vehicle for less from competing dealerships.

Just like Tesla, I can walk in and price out a 2018 LS and the CA might say the MSRP is the price you pay today. I can literally get the keys in a reasonable amount of time. OR i can go phone up a couple sales reps, and find out that the Sticker aint s*** and there are unadvertised cash on the hood of $15K and purchase it with sticker-$15k.



Service:

Both are clusterfcuks, since traditional dealerships love recommending service you dont need, and Tesla service centers have a nice wait time for parts sometimes. Contrary to popular belief, EV vehicles still have traditional wear items like a suspension and other scheduled maintenance, but I`d be uninformed if I`d say that ICE vehicles are cheaper regular maintenance wise. Less moving parts=less frequent service. However the only point of contention is the cost of less infrequent service (ie when something does break on an EV, whats the cost associated)

The other point is that with an ICE vehicle you can take it out of the dealership and head to a indy. Good luck with that, with Elon's "we know whats best for you attitude" and most folks brainwashing themselves and other with it that mantra.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

that's all you got from that huge article? i'd say this is pretty shocking: