Why Tesla doesn't go bankrupt despite losing money
#151
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
Tesla has just 4.9 billion dollars in equity [assets less liabilities] - just imagine what someone like Toyota Motor Corp with $200 billion dollars in equity, or Daimler AG with 80 billion dollars in equity, or BMW AG with 64 billion dollars in equity - could do to batteries, electric motors and supercharger networks???
The big players just aren't trying very hard.
If they wanted to, they would just walk over Tesla - like you stepping on an ant...
The big players just aren't trying very hard.
If they wanted to, they would just walk over Tesla - like you stepping on an ant...
toyota may well 'squash' tesla, or at least become a big player in EVs but they've got a loooooooong way to go and i believe they are wasting their time and money on their fuel cell stuff but they have to do it because their Japanese govt has told them they have to as part of a long term national energy strategy there.
#152
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
Yes, they are purposefully starting from the bottom and working their way up.
The big players could instantly crush liddle Tesla.
Don't you worry - bigger battery capacities, faster 0-60, and bigger supercharging networks - will come over time.
Just look at what a Chinese young upstart with neither experience nor money can archieve with EV's on the Nurburgring:
https://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/n...ng-lap-record/
The big players are unlikely rush flawed products onto the market with poor reliability recommendations on Consumer Reports.
https://techcrunch.com/2019/02/21/te...lity-problems/
We race to the top. Why race to the bottom?
The first thing Tesla will fix is what we can see on the outside.
However, Tesla will take its time fixing what we cannot see underneath!
Notice how LS400 took till 1989 to get onto the market - but then it went for the jugular...
.
The big players could instantly crush liddle Tesla.
Don't you worry - bigger battery capacities, faster 0-60, and bigger supercharging networks - will come over time.
Just look at what a Chinese young upstart with neither experience nor money can archieve with EV's on the Nurburgring:
https://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/n...ng-lap-record/
The big players are unlikely rush flawed products onto the market with poor reliability recommendations on Consumer Reports.
https://techcrunch.com/2019/02/21/te...lity-problems/
We race to the top. Why race to the bottom?
The first thing Tesla will fix is what we can see on the outside.
However, Tesla will take its time fixing what we cannot see underneath!
Notice how LS400 took till 1989 to get onto the market - but then it went for the jugular...
.
for some reason you just don't like tesla, maybe?
single-handedly, they've made it more 'normal' to have an EV, something neither GM nor anyone else could do. THAT is amazing. while 40% of teslas are sold in california, i continue to be amazed at how many i see in my small town in central florida. the word is obviously getting out! after definite rushed manufacturing problems on the 3 rollout, mostly about panel fitment, controls, etc., they appear to have worked very hard to improve quality. so now people can buy a reasonably priced 3 that will cost almost nothing to own, is almost silent, charges over night, has range enough for most people... and even those who take long trips can either rent a car for that, or deal with a charge stop on route. my most frequent long trip is to south florida, and there's tesla superchargers on the florida turnpike so it would work out for me.
meanwhile, hyundai/kia is trying to make it more mainstream with koma/niro duo and getting pretty good reviews of them. mercedes and audi are starting with their mid-ute models and we'll see how that plays out. the jaguar ipace appears to be a dud, as have been the flat awful BMW "i" models (with all their "equity" they couldn't crush tesla).
Last edited by bitkahuna; 08-27-19 at 08:28 AM.
#153
Lexus Fanatic
In an EV world, it will be tough to generate the sort of revenue that ICE cars bring in due to the lack of maintenance items. I imagine a Toyota EV could go 5 years without any maintenance except tire rotations. Hahaha.
It's a ways away of course but if I were a franchise dealer, I'd be looking to sell my business in the next 5-10 years and go into something else. With these big shifts coming, It's a pretty risky time for the dealers.
It's a ways away of course but if I were a franchise dealer, I'd be looking to sell my business in the next 5-10 years and go into something else. With these big shifts coming, It's a pretty risky time for the dealers.
#154
Lexus Test Driver
you're contradicting yourself. you say big companies will crush "liddle" (sic) companies and then you cite impressive things done by a chinese little company (with presumably little to no or negative "equity").
for some reason you just don't like tesla, maybe?
single-handedly, they've made it more 'normal' to have an EV, something neither GM nor anyone else could do. THAT is amazing. while 40% of teslas are sold in california, i continue to be amazed at how many i see in my small town in central florida. the word is obviously getting out! after definite rushed manufacturing problems on the 3 rollout, mostly about panel fitment, controls, etc., they appear to have worked very hard to improve quality. so now people can buy a reasonably priced 3 that will cost almost nothing to own, is almost silent, charges over night, has range enough for most people... and even those who take long trips can either rent a car for that, or deal with a charge stop on route. my most frequent long trip is to south florida, and there's tesla superchargers on the florida turnpike so it would work out for me.
meanwhile, hyundai/kia is trying to make it more mainstream with koma/niro duo and getting pretty good reviews of them. mercedes and audi are starting with their mid-ute models and we'll see how that plays out. the jaguar ipace appears to be a dud, as have been the flat awful BMW "i" models (with all their "equity" they couldn't crush tesla).
for some reason you just don't like tesla, maybe?
single-handedly, they've made it more 'normal' to have an EV, something neither GM nor anyone else could do. THAT is amazing. while 40% of teslas are sold in california, i continue to be amazed at how many i see in my small town in central florida. the word is obviously getting out! after definite rushed manufacturing problems on the 3 rollout, mostly about panel fitment, controls, etc., they appear to have worked very hard to improve quality. so now people can buy a reasonably priced 3 that will cost almost nothing to own, is almost silent, charges over night, has range enough for most people... and even those who take long trips can either rent a car for that, or deal with a charge stop on route. my most frequent long trip is to south florida, and there's tesla superchargers on the florida turnpike so it would work out for me.
meanwhile, hyundai/kia is trying to make it more mainstream with koma/niro duo and getting pretty good reviews of them. mercedes and audi are starting with their mid-ute models and we'll see how that plays out. the jaguar ipace appears to be a dud, as have been the flat awful BMW "i" models (with all their "equity" they couldn't crush tesla).
The EVs are generally much cheaper to replace parts outside of the battery. Motors cost ~$3k but rated around a million miles. The actual labor is a couple hours. The battery itself is about ~$8k now. May come down in the future but who knows. Fleet Teslas typically need battery replacement at 300-500k miles. The non-drivetrain parts are the same cost as all other cars such as suspension. Its just a very different vehicle and has significant advantages in terms of simplicity.
#155
Lexus Test Driver
Its relatively very minor compared to ICE cars. Thats my point. I'm talking drivetrain of course. If you want to throw in suspension, cabin filters, etc...those are a wash. Maintenance is terribly cheap on the Tesla. Go to an active Tesla forums and maintenance is actually the least talked about issue because of how little people pay. You'll see a ton of other issues such as paint quality etc...that are Tesla specific issues but maintenance is so insignificant. When Toyota brings out an EV, what will people complain about? What will service centers do to EVs when almost nothing breaks and a customer walks through their doors once every 2 years for servicing their battery coolant? Its gonna be tough for service centers to maintain their current revenues for sure in an EV world.
#156
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
not sure what you mean by that.
For instance, why do inventory Teslas, sell for far less then what the same build costs to a customer? Why do they have tacked on unadvertised discounts, sometimes totaling over $20K or more that you must call your sales rep from tesla to find out about?
as far as calling a rep, it doesn't surprise me if they have end of month or end of quarter incentives. more power to them.
"Dealerships allow for choice"
The only thing dealerships do well for the end customer is allow for choice. Folks can walk in and pay sticker or folks can do their homework and get the vehicle for less from competing dealerships.
The only thing dealerships do well for the end customer is allow for choice. Folks can walk in and pay sticker or folks can do their homework and get the vehicle for less from competing dealerships.
i know some people are successful in doing the email and wait method but many dealers won't communicate with customers via email, they require you to go into their den of vipers.
Just like Tesla, I can walk in and price out a 2018 LS and the CA might say the MSRP is the price you pay today. I can literally get the keys in a reasonable amount of time. OR i can go phone up a couple sales reps, and find out that the Sticker aint s*** and there are unadvertised cash on the hood of $15K and purchase it with sticker-$15k.
I`d be uninformed if I`d say that ICE vehicles are cheaper regular maintenance wise.
The other point is that with an ICE vehicle you can take it out of the dealership and head to a indy. Good luck with that, with Elon's "we know whats best for you attitude" and most folks brainwashing themselves and other with it that mantra.
#157
Lexus Fanatic
Its relatively very minor compared to ICE cars. Thats my point. I'm talking drivetrain of course. If you want to throw in suspension, cabin filters, etc...those are a wash. Maintenance is terribly cheap on the Tesla. Go to an active Tesla forums and maintenance is actually the least talked about issue because of how little people pay. You'll see a ton of other issues such as paint quality etc...that are Tesla specific issues but maintenance is so insignificant. When Toyota brings out an EV, what will people complain about? What will service centers do to EVs when almost nothing breaks and a customer walks through their doors once every 2 years for servicing their battery coolant? Its gonna be tough for service centers to maintain their current revenues for sure in an EV world.
#158
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
^^^ good info.
#159
Lexus Test Driver
"Tesla recommended the service every year or 12,500 miles for the Model S and Model X and every two years or 25,000 miles for the Model 3.
Now Tesla tells owners: "Your Tesla does not require annual maintenance and regular fluid changes," and instead recommends only periodic, as-needed servicing of brake fluid, pads, and calipers, filters, and air conditioning."
https://www.greencarreports.com/news...ic-maintenance
My owners manual states I have to get it looked at periodically. The things that are recommended are brake fluid check every 2 years (only replace if contamination is detected). Replacement of cabin air filters every 2 years. Tire rotation every 10-12k miles. Lets see...if my brake fluid holds up, maybe a hundred to replace cabin air filters every 2 years? Discount tires will do my rotations for almost nothing. Way cheaper than what you've estimated using the outdated schedule.
#160
Lexus Fanatic
This is the old schedule and outdated. They since revised it and state:
"Tesla recommended the service every year or 12,500 miles for the Model S and Model X and every two years or 25,000 miles for the Model 3.
Now Tesla tells owners: "Your Tesla does not require annual maintenance and regular fluid changes," and instead recommends only periodic, as-needed servicing of brake fluid, pads, and calipers, filters, and air conditioning."
https://www.greencarreports.com/news...ic-maintenance
My owners manual states I have to get it looked at periodically. The things that are recommended are brake fluid check every 2 years (only replace if contamination is detected). Replacement of cabin air filters every 2 years. Tire rotation every 10-12k miles. Lets see...if my brake fluid holds up, maybe a hundred to replace cabin air filters every 2 years? Discount tires will do my rotations for almost nothing. Way cheaper than what you've estimated using the outdated schedule.
"Tesla recommended the service every year or 12,500 miles for the Model S and Model X and every two years or 25,000 miles for the Model 3.
Now Tesla tells owners: "Your Tesla does not require annual maintenance and regular fluid changes," and instead recommends only periodic, as-needed servicing of brake fluid, pads, and calipers, filters, and air conditioning."
https://www.greencarreports.com/news...ic-maintenance
My owners manual states I have to get it looked at periodically. The things that are recommended are brake fluid check every 2 years (only replace if contamination is detected). Replacement of cabin air filters every 2 years. Tire rotation every 10-12k miles. Lets see...if my brake fluid holds up, maybe a hundred to replace cabin air filters every 2 years? Discount tires will do my rotations for almost nothing. Way cheaper than what you've estimated using the outdated schedule.
#161
Lexus Test Driver
Inspection only now. replace as needed.
"Fluid Replacement Intervals
Your Battery coolant does not need to be
replaced for the life of your vehicle under
most circumstances. Brake fluid should be
checked every 2 years, replacing if necessary.
Note: Any damage caused by opening the
Battery coolant reservoir is excluded from the
warranty."
Model 3 probably needs the least maintenance of any car on the street.
"Fluid Replacement Intervals
Your Battery coolant does not need to be
replaced for the life of your vehicle under
most circumstances. Brake fluid should be
checked every 2 years, replacing if necessary.
Note: Any damage caused by opening the
Battery coolant reservoir is excluded from the
warranty."
Model 3 probably needs the least maintenance of any car on the street.
#162
Lexus Fanatic
#163
Lexus Fanatic
So how does Tesla all of sudden just decide to change their maintenance requirements?
Also, I see on Audi e-tron, there is a minor then standard service every 10K. Also add in a few a la carte things as well. So the manufacturers will still get these EV buyers in for service.
https://www.audidevon.com/audi-etron...e-devon-pa.htm
The charging socket is certainly important, and it's what allows you to be able to power up the Audi e-tron at the end of the day. We'll look for any contamination or damage. T
Yikes
Also, I see on Audi e-tron, there is a minor then standard service every 10K. Also add in a few a la carte things as well. So the manufacturers will still get these EV buyers in for service.
https://www.audidevon.com/audi-etron...e-devon-pa.htm
The charging socket is certainly important, and it's what allows you to be able to power up the Audi e-tron at the end of the day. We'll look for any contamination or damage. T
#164
Lexus Test Driver
So how does Tesla all of sudden just decide to change their maintenance requirements?
Also, I see on Audi e-tron, there is a minor then standard service every 10K. Also add in a few a la carte things as well. So the manufacturers will still get these EV buyers in for service.
https://www.audidevon.com/audi-etron...e-devon-pa.htm
Yikes
Also, I see on Audi e-tron, there is a minor then standard service every 10K. Also add in a few a la carte things as well. So the manufacturers will still get these EV buyers in for service.
https://www.audidevon.com/audi-etron...e-devon-pa.htm
Yikes
That is the only point I was trying to make.
#165
Lexus Fanatic
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 08-27-19 at 11:46 AM.