SW17LS

He believes he can do it better, and that you will just screw it up.

Not the same way he does, not by a long shot.

Toys4RJill

I don't agree with you, sorry...

EZZ

For Toyota to have the same commitment as Tesla, they'd have to build their own Toyota gas station, direct dealership, direct online storefront, and in dash game console to be apples to apples.

Freds430

The Model S has sold 8,525 units through July. Last year through July they sold 16,350 units. That is a drop of -47.8%. The Model X through July of this year has sold 10,600 units versus 13,350 units through July last year. This is with a variable tax credit that disappears in four months. This drop is also with no competition. This morning at the Audi dealership a fully loaded E-tron with every option is $85,000 less the $7,500 tax credit so a net $77,500. Be willing to bet the E-tron does not show up on Consumer Reports as #1 in the ten dogs to avoid. Audi is not 27 out of 29 in reliability. The E-tron will not be the fourth most expensive vehicle like the Model X to insure with the S being #1.The Audi is worlds better looking inside and out then the Model X. Tesla the new Solyndra.

jrmckinley

So now Tesla has no competition.. yet in your earlier post you were talking about fierce competition taking share away from Tesla..? I'm officially confused. Does Tesla have competition or not?

Members on this forum who own Tesla's are saying their insurance premiums went up marginally (some saying less than $15/month) compared to cars they switched from (Lexus, BMW, etc) so I will take their word for it. And anyone shopping for a $60k to $120k car is not going to back away from the purchase because the insurance cost goes up a bit.

The E-Tron should cost less considering it has about 33% less range than a Tesla. Consumer Reports "reliability" is a useless way of measuring actual reliability because they consider things like a glitch in a nav system to be a reliability issue. And let's not forget that between 80-90% of issues with a Tesla can be addressed with software instead of a trip to a dealership like an ICE vehicle.

Toys4RJill

Still does not mean any of the car manufacturers do not try to control their own user experiences. You also can buy a Tesla and never ever use a supercharger if you want.

Freds430

You and the few members that have stated the insurance went up marginally are correct and the Insurance Bureau is wrong. Statistically speaking I would certainly put more credence in a few members then the national average. Why do you think Musk was trying to start Tesla's own insurance company.

https://www.autonews.com/article/201...sive-to-insure

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money...sure/35234533/

https://www.valuepenguin.com/tesla-car-insurance

https://www.autonews.com/finance-ins...-tap-autopilot

https://www.insure.com/car-insurance...es-by-car.html

peteharvey

Tesla certainly has been a initial success.
Although TMC initially kept saying that there was no future in lithium ion electric vehicles, it has forced President Akio to create an Electric Division late 2017.

However, I'm still on the fence regarding long term success due to a number of questionable factors like: Noticeable fall in sales of Models S & X, only 4 months of tax credits remaining, the competition introducing their vehicles with progressively increasing size of battery packs and increasing their supercharger network, long term Tesla losses, and huge fall in Tesla share price etc.

jrmckinley

Insure.com (link you provided) doesn't even show that Tesla has anything other than a Model S and Model X, so I don't personally trust anything they're posting. National averages are exactly that- averages - so they're not really helpful when I don't know what they're taking into account so just for kicks I will call my insurance company and ask them what it will cost to have a Model 3 and also a Model S to replace my 2010 LS460 with identical coverage and post back what they tell me. I'm interested to know so it will be a good exercise. I fill my car up 4-6 times/month with premium gas so a switch to an EV would save me somewhere around $200 to $250 per month. Even if insurance goes up $50/month (that would represent about a 30% increase compared to what I pay on my LS which is roughly $1k every 6 months), the gas savings would more than counteract that increase.

Musk was considering starting an insurance arm for one very simple reason. Profit. Insurance, when done correctly, can be an incredibly profitable and lucrative industry. Tesla can collect a lot of driving behavior data that could lead to changes in premiums (some would go up, some would go down) and Musk could capitalize on that with his own company. Based on the way you're phrasing your response, I assume you think he'd use it as a loss-leader to lower the total cost of ownership. But IMO that is absolutely not the case. It would be a new stream of revenue- and one that could be highly profitable.

I'll report back shortly with what my insurance tells me. Keep in mind I currently own a 10 year old car so going to something brand new is quite a potential change in premiums.

EZZ

You need to shop around. Some insurance companies like Geico are unreasonable. If you are in Cali, Wawanesa is great and check Allstate. Hope this helps

EZZ

2 of the articles you linked is really old. Mid 2018 is when the cars started shipping in mass to customers. One of the links said the average Model 3 costs were $1900 which isn't terribly different from any luxury make in the $50k range. One of the links didn't even have the Model 3, just the S/X. The S/X are over $100k so of course their insurance rates are astronomical. Most of my friends and I pay ~$1700 for great coverage in the model 3. It's just not that expensive to insure.

LeX2K

This is why Tesla is not making money they are still building out and in a big way.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

Once again, this is completely incorrect. A private dealer pays all those costs through profits obtained in selling and servicing vehicles. There’s NO savings to the manufacturer whatsoever by having 3rd party dealers.

So yes, it’s simple math, and doesn’t take a genius to figure out that dealers don’t save money. But 3rd party dealers exist and are liked by traditional manufacturers because the latter likes not having to deal with consumers directly, it scales better, and because by having dog eat dog competition between dealers, it provides ‘potential’ benefits to consumers as dealers compete on price, product, and service.

The reality is different of course, dealers, despite all the shiny and bright showrooms and lots, are out to screw the consumer in every way possible, on sales and service. To lie, cheat, misrepresent, and manipulate consumers. They do it all day every day and unless one is really on their toes and aware of the tricks, they WILL get taken.

No it isn’t, for reasons stated above. You seem to think the dealer’s costs get paid out of thin air, not from profits from sales and service, margin which the manufacturer doesn’t get and the manufacturer sells as a lower ‘invoice’ price, vs what the dealer sells it for.

LeX2K

I don't think most people realize how shady most dealerships actually are, I've worked on a fair number of cars where the stuff the dealer said was necessary were outright lies. No sugar coating it they were lies, and it gets even worse at times I've found the dealer sabotaged the vehicle. In one case they purposely pulled the boot off CV joint, and also splashed brake fluid around the engine bay to make it seem like there was a leak. I bought a car a few years back that was written up for $3500+ in repairs in actuality it needed about $500, I repaired the car for less than $100.

Take a look at the giant show rooms, all the staff, all the service bays of a dealership someone has to pay for it all. They squeeze every possible penny out of people and rip them off right and left and backwards. Auto dealers have to be responsible for charging billions in unnecessary work.

/end rant

n134sky

Did u ever report those dealers to the authorities? Which dealerships were they?