EZZ

Even with services, it was a loss making business. The middle men are feeling the squeeze and they are struggling to find profits. You want Tesla to go that route? Nooooo way.

LeX2K

All the more reason for Tesla not to have dealers the only normal service items are brakes and coolant.

EZZ

Imagine Toyota's EV regular maintenance schedule. Battery service every 50k miles. Brakes every 100k miles. Tire rotations every 10k miles. Hahaha. Franchises are doomed.

Toys4RJill

I am sure dealers still make money off new car sales. It’s not all doom and gloom. The manufacturer has a hand in that in whether they take care of their dealer franchises or not. For sure the service part is a big profit, but there they still make money.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

Some not all. Obviously some models have greater profit margins than others, but there is less to give these days. I laugh at the people who get the car below invoice and then complain that they don't get their free 'swag' key chains, mugs, hats. "In the old days I got tons of free stuff and perks" Yeah well back then you paid MSRP. Silly people.

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Tesla should license their powertrains and sell them to automakers, they'd make a fortune. And automakers would pay it because they wouldn't have to do as much R&D

Toys4RJill

Tesla cars still have brake services and intervals. Closer to 25k. Coolants for the batteries have to be changed as well. Tire rotation. I think Tesla brakes have to be inspected more in cold weather as well

LeX2K

BEV with Toyota reliability is kiss the dealerships goodbye.
Brakes on a Tesla last 100k+ miles in many cases regen reduces friction brake use 90%. Don't know where you heard the cold brake thing from a Tesla has the same hydraulic braking system as any car.

Toys4RJill

You really think so? I think the big manufacturers have watched Tesla be the test bed and will dominate on their own parts etc. For example, let’s say Toyota an EV HRV, Corolla and Camry in the pipeline, the economy of scale will be tremendous when they are using parts for ICE such as frame and suspension but EV parts across the range. I read that China third part EV parts will dominate because nobody will be able to differentiate the difference between a Tesla motor vs a Porsche more vs a Toyota motor.

mmarshall

Many other things on a vehicle, even a BEV, need service/repair/replacement besides brakes and coolant. There's wiper blades, wheel alignment/balance, tire-changes, headlight aiming/adjustment, CV/universal joints, wheel bearings, etc........the list is endless.

EZZ

Brakes last 100k+ miles. Brake fluid needs to be inspected every 2 years in cold climates. Battery needs to be inspected every 2 years and changed as needed. Tire rotation can be done at Costco for nearly free. Tell me how a dealership can survive on that schedule? EVs will also get better meaning even less maintenance required. Bye bye service center revenue...

Toys4RJill

Great points 👍
Battery will need replacing too.

EZZ

If you take all the routine maintenance of an ICE and have 1/10 of the operating costs in an EV for scheduled maintenance, think about the service center revenue. Completely illogical thinking a current dealership that is currently loss making, having a tenth of the revenue from scheduled services from a BEV surviving in any shape. A battery replacement is expensive because the battery itself is expensive. The labor associated with a battery replacement is not that expensive relatively and the batteries last 300k miles! Batteries will outlast the car in most instances. Won't shed a tear for the dealerships going away..

LeX2K

It's silly trying to argue a BEV is as complex mechanically as an ICE car. Honestly anyone saying that has never worked on a petrol car diagnosing the endless ignition and emissions failures that are routine.

I just worked on a car where I replaced:
exhaust downpipe (rest of the exhaust is crusty will need replacing soon including at least one Catalytic that's $$$$$)
spark plugs
2 ignition coils
EGR sensor, cleaned EGR system
O2 sensors
fuel filter
EVAP VSV
MAF sensor (owner damaged it trying to clean)

BEV has none of those things. A BEV is dead simple to work on worst case you swap out a battery or drive unit. Both are EASY compared to replacing a gas engine or transmission.

mmarshall

The drivetrain/exhaust system on a BEV are not as complex as an ICE, but the rest of the car is. And the electronics can be much more complex.

LeX2K

There is no exhaust on a BEV. The drivetrain is vastly more simple the drive unit has 3-4 moving parts. On the electronics I don't see an EV being more complex, it has complex logic for battery management but none for engine management which is getting extremely complex due to emissions standards and sensors for everything. Either way any modern car has body modules everywhere, and consider a hybrid it has to worry about the gas engine and battery management.

If you want simple drive an old car. BTW watch Rich Rebuilds on YT he strips down and builds Tesla's from what I've seen the car is not especially complicated the electronics are generally not serviceable anyway if a module dies you replace it, same as any modern car with few exceptions.