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Trump administration revokes California’s authority to set auto mileage standards

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Old 09-21-19, 02:21 PM
  #46  
bitkahuna
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And to those asking “why WOULDN’T we want cleaner air, less polution, etc.?” I ask “sure, but at what cost?”

Similarly about the broader hot topic (no pun intended) of ‘climate change’ many of the grand sweeping proposals or actions (carbon taxes for example) have ENORMOUS costs which will scarcely make ANY difference by the end of the century, but they make earnest politicians and activists ‘feel good’ about having done something.

i won’t lament the end of ICE vehicles at all but i also don’t want the only vehicles available to have huge costs and wind turbines and solar ‘farms’ as far as the eye can see everywhere. I think wind turbines are butt ugly.
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Old 09-21-19, 03:16 PM
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AJT123
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Can we just get NA 6 and 8 cylinder engines back, please?

(That's a rhetorical question.)

On another note, I sort of miss the debate forum. But then sometimes I get why we got rid of it.
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Old 09-21-19, 03:35 PM
  #48  
LeX2K
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Originally Posted by AJT123
Can we just get NA 6 and 8 cylinder engines back, please?

(That's a rhetorical question.)
I'll answer anyway a BEV gets 120 MPGe and goes from 0-60 is 3.2 seconds or less, given the ever increasing average fuel economy standards the big bad petrol burner is all but dead.
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Old 09-21-19, 05:04 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by Lexus2000
I'll answer anyway a BEV gets 120 MPGe and goes from 0-60 is 3.2 seconds or less, given the ever increasing average fuel economy standards the big bad petrol burner is all but dead.
A BEV will not be able to outrun the V8 or Turbo 6 at speeds over 100mph. So it's not the same thing...
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Old 09-21-19, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by EZZ
A BEV will not be able to outrun the V8 or Turbo 6 at speeds over 100mph. So it's not the same thing...

So who's going to be driving over 100 MPH? Anyone who does that on a public road (and gets caught) will probably have a reckless driving charge in most states.
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Old 09-21-19, 05:16 PM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by EZZ
A BEV will not be able to outrun the V8 or Turbo 6 at speeds over 100mph. So it's not the same thing...
The Taycan will likely be able to beat most petrol cars given the 2-speed gearbox. And if it doesn't won't be long before an EV destroys almost any gas burner probably the next Tesla Roadster.
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Old 09-21-19, 05:36 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by Lexus2000
The Taycan will likely be able to beat most petrol cars given the 2-speed gearbox. And if it doesn't won't be long before an EV destroys almost any gas burner probably the next Tesla Roadster.
I was half kidding but on Autobahn speeds, the bigger displacement burners have the advantage. Everywhere else, the EV has the advantage.
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Old 09-21-19, 06:33 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by TigerInst
Idk how else to simplify it anymore. CARB, along with other agencies, set strict emission standards if cars are to be sold here in Cali. How will auto manufactures do this? Through developing non-standard ways to reduce emissions and then testing to see if it works. Here in Cali, cars sold after 2004 had to meet LEV standards (Low Emission Vehicle). ULEV, and SULEV are even more stringent restrictions on emissions and then there are ZEV and PZEV but those are generally hybrid cars. This added cost is then distributed amongst the consumers and generally will add to the overall cost of vehicles being sold throughout the nation so that the difference in price between the same vehicle isn't drastically different.
Probably should have been more clear but all this is definitely effecting the auto-industry as the cost to meet higher and higher emission standards goes up, meaning higher costs customers have to pay. This coupled with our crazy gas tax isn't exactly good for Cali's overall economy, especially our farming/transportation industry.
Lets take carmakers the people who are directly dealing with these "so-called" issues...Have they released a statement indicating that CARB rules are unfair and revoking such rules betters the industry going forward?

Have California Energy Commission been investigating possible gas price manipulation in the states?

Originally Posted by bitkahuna
i didn’t see anyone write that cars would suddenly drop massively in price because of this action, but even so, car makers having to make special adjustments or just certification for california, or possibly just decide that we’ll do it for california and sell the same versions everywhere else too because it’s simpler means that everyone outside california is paying more for a vehicle than they would... it’s not that complicated.

Lower prices could mean greater sales, or keep the same prices if the market will support it and make more profit, either way this puts more money in the automaker’s pocket and the potential to hire more people - well definitely more if they’re selling more volume, but even if same volume with more profit they can hire people for other areas, like EVs.
Lower price=more sales=higher profits=healthier companies. Thats great, but is that what the auto industry follows in terms of mindset? I bring up the healthy companies of Ford and GM currently, probably one of the best periods of profit since the recession, and yet we see them cutting the workforce and shutting down plants alongside entire segments of vehicles. If they havent applied the "lower price=more hires" ideology now, what makes the future any different.

Again if the idea here is more jobs and cheaper cars, nothing but a straight up subsidy/incentives from someone else is going to accomplish that.

Tesla is one of those companies that benefited greatly in the beginning to a certain degree on the promise of subsidies. M3 preorders up and down due to the federal incentives. This created jobs indirectly.
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Old 09-21-19, 07:00 PM
  #54  
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Why should California set the rules for a federal agency.
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Old 09-22-19, 01:21 PM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by Lexus2000
I'll answer anyway a BEV gets 120 MPGe and goes from 0-60 is 3.2 seconds or less, given the ever increasing average fuel economy standards the big bad petrol burner is all but dead.
That is not even close to being true or can be proven.
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Old 09-22-19, 02:59 PM
  #56  
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The supply/demand dynamics are going to be very interesting. As more electrics are sold, the demand for gasoline should go down. But only 40% of a barrel of oil is used to produce gasoline. So, I can see a glut of cheap gasoline in the future. If gas prices tank while electricity prices continue to go up, adoption of electrics may slow down after that tipping point.
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Old 09-22-19, 07:45 PM
  #57  
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https://www.apnews.com/557dac75254a4342b4176c064a534e3b

"Joining California in the lawsuit are attorneys general from Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Hawaii, Illinois, Maine, Massachusetts, Maryland, Michigan, Minnesota, Nevada, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, North Carolina, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Vermont, Virginia, Washington and Wisconsin.

The cities of New York and Los Angeles and the District of Columbia also joined the lawsuit."

Forget California, China will force automakers to go green anyways.
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Old 09-22-19, 07:54 PM
  #58  
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Forget California, China will force automakers to go green anyways.
yeah. I agree
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Old 09-22-19, 08:16 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by nicedude
https://www.apnews.com/557dac75254a4342b4176c064a534e3b

"Joining California in the lawsuit are attorneys general from Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Hawaii, Illinois, Maine, Massachusetts, Maryland, Michigan, Minnesota, Nevada, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, North Carolina, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Vermont, Virginia, Washington and Wisconsin.

The cities of New York and Los Angeles and the District of Columbia also joined the lawsuit."


^^^^^ We'll see, but they will probably lose. In the field of auto emissions, Federal law supersedes that of the states.

Forget California, China will force automakers to go green anyways.
LOL. China has fewer environmental regulations than we do....almost non-existant. That's one reason why the air is virtually unbreathable, without a mask/filter, in some parts of the country.
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Old 09-23-19, 07:56 AM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by mmarshall
^^^^^ We'll see, but they will probably lose. In the field of auto emissions, Federal law supersedes that of the states.



LOL. China has fewer environmental regulations than we do....almost non-existant. That's one reason why the air is virtually unbreathable, without a mask/filter, in some parts of the country.
10 years ago you'd have been correct but China has introduced strict environmental protection legislation covering water and air. Polluters are being cracked down upon and their investment in clean energy is second to none.
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