Trump administration revokes California’s authority to set auto mileage standards
09-23-19, 12:28 PM
#63
Lexus Test Driver
Late to the party but none of this revoking stuff just cause Obama did it, particularly the fuel standards, none of it matters for at least a few reasons.
1) Investment. Car companies already invested in clean tech. It would do them no good to go backwards.
2) Other regions of the world have stringent standards as well. As a car maker, you aren't making different cars for different regions. The cleanest standard where that model is sold gets applied to all its models sold everywhere.
3) Customers expect good fuel economy. A manufacturer reversing the MPG of its cars to get worse mileage not only makes no sense, it assumes all its competitors in the industry are doing the same thing.
4) Car companies want to create cars with better fuel economy every year, and will naturally do so as materials get better. Engineering is getting better and we're finding better ways to make better things. Amazing how people improve, eh?
5) I imagine there will be legal challenges and in 17 or so short months, this could all be moot anyway...
There's more but those are the immediate ones that come to mind. I'm proud of California's commitment to clean air and stringent pollution standards. I immediately report gross polluters I come across out on the road. State of California takes it really seriously.
Saving (conserving/conservative) money is a great thing. I like money. I want my cars to be more and more fuel efficient.
I also like clean lungs. I like clean air going into my nostrils. Cleaner the better. Don't know who could argue with that...
1) Investment. Car companies already invested in clean tech. It would do them no good to go backwards.
2) Other regions of the world have stringent standards as well. As a car maker, you aren't making different cars for different regions. The cleanest standard where that model is sold gets applied to all its models sold everywhere.
3) Customers expect good fuel economy. A manufacturer reversing the MPG of its cars to get worse mileage not only makes no sense, it assumes all its competitors in the industry are doing the same thing.
4) Car companies want to create cars with better fuel economy every year, and will naturally do so as materials get better. Engineering is getting better and we're finding better ways to make better things. Amazing how people improve, eh?
5) I imagine there will be legal challenges and in 17 or so short months, this could all be moot anyway...
There's more but those are the immediate ones that come to mind. I'm proud of California's commitment to clean air and stringent pollution standards. I immediately report gross polluters I come across out on the road. State of California takes it really seriously.
Saving (conserving/conservative) money is a great thing. I like money. I want my cars to be more and more fuel efficient.
I also like clean lungs. I like clean air going into my nostrils. Cleaner the better. Don't know who could argue with that...
09-23-19, 05:14 PM
#64
Lexus Champion
Late to the party but none of this revoking stuff just cause Obama did it, particularly the fuel standards, none of it matters for at least a few reasons.
1) Investment. Car companies already invested in clean tech. It would do them no good to go backwards.
2) Other regions of the world have stringent standards as well. As a car maker, you aren't making different cars for different regions. The cleanest standard where that model is sold gets applied to all its models sold everywhere.
3) Customers expect good fuel economy. A manufacturer reversing the MPG of its cars to get worse mileage not only makes no sense, it assumes all its competitors in the industry are doing the same thing.
4) Car companies want to create cars with better fuel economy every year, and will naturally do so as materials get better. Engineering is getting better and we're finding better ways to make better things. Amazing how people improve, eh?
5) I imagine there will be legal challenges and in 17 or so short months, this could all be moot anyway...
There's more but those are the immediate ones that come to mind. I'm proud of California's commitment to clean air and stringent pollution standards. I immediately report gross polluters I come across out on the road. State of California takes it really seriously.
Saving (conserving/conservative) money is a great thing. I like money. I want my cars to be more and more fuel efficient.
I also like clean lungs. I like clean air going into my nostrils. Cleaner the better. Don't know who could argue with that...
1) Investment. Car companies already invested in clean tech. It would do them no good to go backwards.
2) Other regions of the world have stringent standards as well. As a car maker, you aren't making different cars for different regions. The cleanest standard where that model is sold gets applied to all its models sold everywhere.
3) Customers expect good fuel economy. A manufacturer reversing the MPG of its cars to get worse mileage not only makes no sense, it assumes all its competitors in the industry are doing the same thing.
4) Car companies want to create cars with better fuel economy every year, and will naturally do so as materials get better. Engineering is getting better and we're finding better ways to make better things. Amazing how people improve, eh?
5) I imagine there will be legal challenges and in 17 or so short months, this could all be moot anyway...
There's more but those are the immediate ones that come to mind. I'm proud of California's commitment to clean air and stringent pollution standards. I immediately report gross polluters I come across out on the road. State of California takes it really seriously.
Saving (conserving/conservative) money is a great thing. I like money. I want my cars to be more and more fuel efficient.
I also like clean lungs. I like clean air going into my nostrils. Cleaner the better. Don't know who could argue with that...
09-23-19, 05:17 PM
#65
Lexus Fanatic
You might not even have to take a mileage-penalty. With the non-turbo 3.6L, 9-speed automatic, engine stop-start system, and the precise fuel management system on my Lacrosse, I average low 20s in town and low 30s on the highway...on cheaper 87 octane.
09-24-19, 05:19 AM
#66
just because you have turbos dont mean you will make better fuel economy. Turbos are great at cheesing the govt testing procedure, however much more finicky in the real world. If turbochargers were truly more fuel efficient why haven't they been on every engine from the beginning? They arent a new invention
https://www.autoblog.com/2015/06/17/...-fuel-economy/
https://www.autoblog.com/2015/06/17/...-fuel-economy/
Last edited by 4TehNguyen; 09-24-19 at 05:24 AM.
09-24-19, 06:28 AM
#67
Lexus Fanatic
just because you have turbos dont mean you will make better fuel economy. Turbos are great at cheesing the govt testing procedure, however much more finicky in the real world. If turbochargers were truly more fuel efficient why haven't they been on every engine from the beginning? They arent a new invention
09-24-19, 06:31 AM
#68
that doesnt make turbos more fuel efficient, the primary advantage of turbos is volumetric efficiency or power density for its engine size. The power isnt free either, you cant get around the fact that you have to burn more fuel to get more power. The point to add another 15 psi in the engine is so you can burn double the fuel as well to make more power, which doesn't mean its more fuel efficient
if you want an extreme example, my viper makes better mpg than the Ford GT "ecoboost" engine
if you want an extreme example, my viper makes better mpg than the Ford GT "ecoboost" engine
Last edited by 4TehNguyen; 09-24-19 at 06:38 AM.
09-24-19, 06:38 AM
#69
Lexus Fanatic
Broken or failed turbos don't produce any efficiency at all. Better reliability means, of course, more efficiency. 
Turbos also have the advantage that they often don't operate if you drive with a light foot, which itself saves gas....that's the whole idea of them. Power when you want or need it.....efficiency when you want or need it. Your choice.
Turbos also have the advantage that they often don't operate if you drive with a light foot, which itself saves gas....that's the whole idea of them. Power when you want or need it.....efficiency when you want or need it. Your choice.
Last edited by mmarshall; 09-24-19 at 06:42 AM.
09-24-19, 07:08 AM
#70
Lead Lap
Broken or failed turbos don't produce any efficiency at all. Better reliability means, of course, more efficiency.
Turbos also have the advantage that they often don't operate if you drive with a light foot, which itself saves gas....that's the whole idea of them. Power when you want or need it.....efficiency when you want or need it. Your choice.
Turbos also have the advantage that they often don't operate if you drive with a light foot, which itself saves gas....that's the whole idea of them. Power when you want or need it.....efficiency when you want or need it. Your choice.
Here's Why Small Turbo Engines Might Not Always Be as Efficient as Advertised
09-24-19, 07:15 AM
#71
Forum Administrator
iTrader: (2)
I've removed a recent post and am posting this reminder that we closed the debate forum and do not allow political content on CL any longer.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/faq...les#faq_debate
Please help keep this discussion open and non-political.
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Additionally, the following discussion topics are prohibited on Club Lexus in new threads or replies to existing threads:
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Last edited by DaveGS4; 09-24-19 at 07:19 AM.
09-24-19, 07:26 AM
#72
Intermediate
And to those asking “why WOULDN’T we want cleaner air, less polution, etc.?” I ask “sure, but at what cost?”
Similarly about the broader hot topic (no pun intended) of ‘climate change’ many of the grand sweeping proposals or actions (carbon taxes for example) have ENORMOUS costs which will scarcely make ANY difference by the end of the century, but they make earnest politicians and activists ‘feel good’ about having done something.
i won’t lament the end of ICE vehicles at all but i also don’t want the only vehicles available to have huge costs and wind turbines and solar ‘farms’ as far as the eye can see everywhere. I think wind turbines are butt ugly.
Similarly about the broader hot topic (no pun intended) of ‘climate change’ many of the grand sweeping proposals or actions (carbon taxes for example) have ENORMOUS costs which will scarcely make ANY difference by the end of the century, but they make earnest politicians and activists ‘feel good’ about having done something.
i won’t lament the end of ICE vehicles at all but i also don’t want the only vehicles available to have huge costs and wind turbines and solar ‘farms’ as far as the eye can see everywhere. I think wind turbines are butt ugly.
There was an article in the NY Post that mentioned those things in addition to paying almost double federal income taxes as well. My point is, 90% of the country (United States) will not go for this nonsense. As a matter of fact, I'm thinking of getting an RCF sooner than I earlier anticipated since it will one day be illegal or taxed off of the road.
09-24-19, 07:31 AM
#73
Lead Lap
food for thought, even with the so-called restrictions from CARB
We have gotten the Hellcat, Demon, ZR1, V10s and V12 Lambos, aka the fastest motors outthere
We have gotten the Hellcat, Demon, ZR1, V10s and V12 Lambos, aka the fastest motors outthere
09-24-19, 08:58 AM
#74
Lexus Champion
That engine is a gem. My Mother's Enclave has a less powerful version of the 3.6 but I am consistently impressed by how refined and well-behaved it is. It's not the fastest CUV out there but the powertrain is excellent, overall. It lugs the heavy vehicle from below 2k rpm impressively, much better than our much lighter and more powerful 3.5 in our IS350.
Those are some impressive fuel economy numbers you're getting with your Lacrosse!!!