Trump administration revokes California’s authority to set auto mileage standards
#1
Pole Position
Thread Starter
Trump administration revokes California’s authority to set auto mileage standards
Source: Interesting report, I wonder if he's going to make California use the same gas as the rest of the country next.
In a move President Trump said will reduce car prices but will also anger environmental groups, the administration is revoking California's authority to set strict fuel economy standards.
Trump announced the move Wednesday, saying the decision was made “in order to produce far less expensive cars for the consumer,” while making cars safer at the same time.
“This will lead to more production because of this pricing and safety advantage, and also due to the fact that older, highly polluting cars, will be replaced by new, extremely environmentally friendly cars,” Trump tweeted Wednesday morning.
California's authority to set its own emissions standards tougher than the federal government's goes back to a waiver issued by Congress during passage of the Clean Air Act in 1970. The state has long pushed automakers to adopt more fuel-efficient passenger vehicles that emit less pollution. A dozen states and the District of Columbia also follow California's fuel economy standards.
The Trump administration decision revokes that waiver, touching off what is sure to be another high-profile legal fight with the Golden State.
In anticipation of the move, California Attorney General Xavier Becerra said Tuesday that the administration's action will hurt both U.S. automakers and American families. He said California would fight the administration in federal court.
"You have no basis and no authority to pull this waiver," Becerra, a Democrat, said in a statement, referring to Trump. "We're ready to fight for a future that you seem unable to comprehend."
California Gov. Gavin Newsom said the White House "has abdicated its responsibility to the rest of the world on cutting emissions and fighting global warming."
The president, though, claimed there would be “very little difference” in emissions between the federal and California’s standard, but said cars “will be far safer and much less expensive.” He also predicted that a new national standard for fuel economy will result in more cars being produced by the U.S. and more jobs.
The move comes after the Justice Department recently opened an antitrust investigation into a deal between California and four automakers for tougher pollution and related mileage requirements than those sought by Trump.
Trump also has sought to relax Obama-era federal mileage standards nationwide, weakening a key effort by his Democratic predecessor to slow climate change.
"We embrace federalism and the role of the states, but federalism does not mean that one state can dictate standards for the nation,” EPA Administrator Andrew Wheeler told the National Automobile Dealers Association Tuesday, adding that higher fuel economy standards would hurt consumers by increasing the average sticker price of new cars and requiring automakers to produce more electric vehicles.
Environmentalists condemned the Trump administration's move, which comes as gasoline prices have crept higher following a weekend drone attack that hobbled Saudi Arabian oil output.
"Everyone wins when we adopt strong clean car standards as our public policy," said Fred Krupp, president of Environmental Defense Fund. "Strong clean car standards give us healthier air to breathe, help protect us from the urgent threat of climate change and save Americans hundreds of dollars a year in gas expenses."
The Associated Press contributed to this report.
Trump announced the move Wednesday, saying the decision was made “in order to produce far less expensive cars for the consumer,” while making cars safer at the same time.
“This will lead to more production because of this pricing and safety advantage, and also due to the fact that older, highly polluting cars, will be replaced by new, extremely environmentally friendly cars,” Trump tweeted Wednesday morning.
California's authority to set its own emissions standards tougher than the federal government's goes back to a waiver issued by Congress during passage of the Clean Air Act in 1970. The state has long pushed automakers to adopt more fuel-efficient passenger vehicles that emit less pollution. A dozen states and the District of Columbia also follow California's fuel economy standards.
The Trump administration decision revokes that waiver, touching off what is sure to be another high-profile legal fight with the Golden State.
In anticipation of the move, California Attorney General Xavier Becerra said Tuesday that the administration's action will hurt both U.S. automakers and American families. He said California would fight the administration in federal court.
"You have no basis and no authority to pull this waiver," Becerra, a Democrat, said in a statement, referring to Trump. "We're ready to fight for a future that you seem unable to comprehend."
California Gov. Gavin Newsom said the White House "has abdicated its responsibility to the rest of the world on cutting emissions and fighting global warming."
The president, though, claimed there would be “very little difference” in emissions between the federal and California’s standard, but said cars “will be far safer and much less expensive.” He also predicted that a new national standard for fuel economy will result in more cars being produced by the U.S. and more jobs.
The move comes after the Justice Department recently opened an antitrust investigation into a deal between California and four automakers for tougher pollution and related mileage requirements than those sought by Trump.
Trump also has sought to relax Obama-era federal mileage standards nationwide, weakening a key effort by his Democratic predecessor to slow climate change.
"We embrace federalism and the role of the states, but federalism does not mean that one state can dictate standards for the nation,” EPA Administrator Andrew Wheeler told the National Automobile Dealers Association Tuesday, adding that higher fuel economy standards would hurt consumers by increasing the average sticker price of new cars and requiring automakers to produce more electric vehicles.
Environmentalists condemned the Trump administration's move, which comes as gasoline prices have crept higher following a weekend drone attack that hobbled Saudi Arabian oil output.
"Everyone wins when we adopt strong clean car standards as our public policy," said Fred Krupp, president of Environmental Defense Fund. "Strong clean car standards give us healthier air to breathe, help protect us from the urgent threat of climate change and save Americans hundreds of dollars a year in gas expenses."
The Associated Press contributed to this report.
#3
I don't understand.
First, I want us all to keep "politics" completely out of this topic. Some of us love the Prez and some of us hate him. Fine.
Secondly, just what is being proposed? Are we dealing with pollution limits, or mileage limits? I grew up in California back in the 50s and 60s and welcomed all efforts to reduce auto emissions. And it made sense to allow California to set stricter emission limits than the other states, because LA smog was so much worse than anywhere else in the country. And I know that for decades the automakers built cars to two emissions standards, a conventional car for most of the country and a "California car" for sale in California. I would imagine by now that the emissions standards are universal.
But now is California also insisting that automakers meet a higher mileage standard, an entirely different animal from the emissions standard? I know the standard (which is actually a formula with multiple variables) has risen over the years, and also that the last Administration greatly raised the number before leaving office. But is this a federal issue? If Rhode Island wanted the sale only of cars that got 80mpg, why not? If the Rhode Island folks thought this was hurting their car-buying choices, they could vote the legislators out.
So, again, trying to keep politics out of this discussion, I can see why folks wanted to make more-efficient cars back when fuel was scarce and we were beholden to folks in the Middle East who didn't much like us. But now we're pretty much self-sufficient and no longer dependent on those guys.
EDIT: So I guess what I'm wondering is whether we're talking about emissions or mileage here. Or do the laws link the two, as in "xx grams of CO2 per mile" which could be improved by making the car lighter, or using more sophisticated engine controls, or both.
First, I want us all to keep "politics" completely out of this topic. Some of us love the Prez and some of us hate him. Fine.
Secondly, just what is being proposed? Are we dealing with pollution limits, or mileage limits? I grew up in California back in the 50s and 60s and welcomed all efforts to reduce auto emissions. And it made sense to allow California to set stricter emission limits than the other states, because LA smog was so much worse than anywhere else in the country. And I know that for decades the automakers built cars to two emissions standards, a conventional car for most of the country and a "California car" for sale in California. I would imagine by now that the emissions standards are universal.
But now is California also insisting that automakers meet a higher mileage standard, an entirely different animal from the emissions standard? I know the standard (which is actually a formula with multiple variables) has risen over the years, and also that the last Administration greatly raised the number before leaving office. But is this a federal issue? If Rhode Island wanted the sale only of cars that got 80mpg, why not? If the Rhode Island folks thought this was hurting their car-buying choices, they could vote the legislators out.
So, again, trying to keep politics out of this discussion, I can see why folks wanted to make more-efficient cars back when fuel was scarce and we were beholden to folks in the Middle East who didn't much like us. But now we're pretty much self-sufficient and no longer dependent on those guys.
EDIT: So I guess what I'm wondering is whether we're talking about emissions or mileage here. Or do the laws link the two, as in "xx grams of CO2 per mile" which could be improved by making the car lighter, or using more sophisticated engine controls, or both.
Last edited by riredale; 09-18-19 at 11:44 AM.
#4
The snippet below from the AP is interesting. I'm surprised automakers actually want more stringent standards. That being said, can't they create their own goals and leave state/federal government out of it? What is stopping them from doing that on their own?
"However, U.S. automakers contend that without a substantial increase in fuel efficiency, their vehicles will be less competitive globally, which could potentially result in job losses.
"Automakers support year-over-year increases in fuel economy standards that align with marketplace realities, and we support one national program as the best path to preserve good auto jobs, keep new vehicles affordable for more Americans and avoid a marketplace with different standards," said Dave Schwietert, the interim CEO and president of the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers, which represents Ford, General Motors and other leading U.S. auto manufactures.
Trump's move comes after the Justice Department opened an antitrust investigation into a deal between California and four automakers for tougher pollution and related mileage requirements than those sought by Trump. Trump also has sought to relax Obama-era federal mileage standards nationwide, weakening a key effort by his Democratic predecessor to slow climate change."
"However, U.S. automakers contend that without a substantial increase in fuel efficiency, their vehicles will be less competitive globally, which could potentially result in job losses.
"Automakers support year-over-year increases in fuel economy standards that align with marketplace realities, and we support one national program as the best path to preserve good auto jobs, keep new vehicles affordable for more Americans and avoid a marketplace with different standards," said Dave Schwietert, the interim CEO and president of the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers, which represents Ford, General Motors and other leading U.S. auto manufactures.
Trump's move comes after the Justice Department opened an antitrust investigation into a deal between California and four automakers for tougher pollution and related mileage requirements than those sought by Trump. Trump also has sought to relax Obama-era federal mileage standards nationwide, weakening a key effort by his Democratic predecessor to slow climate change."
#5
Lexus Fanatic
Automakers support year-over-year increases in fuel economy standards that align with marketplace realities, and we support one national program as the best path to preserve good auto jobs, keep new vehicles affordable for more Americans and avoid a marketplace with different standards," said Dave Schwietert, the interim CEO and president of the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers, which represents Ford, General Motors and other leading U.S. auto manufactures.
Of course it comes down to how one interprets "marketplace realities".
Nothing.
#6
The geography of California benefits from these rules. The mountains along the coast do not permit smog or pollution to easily disperse. Think about comparing LA to NYC climate atmospheres.
California has been proactive on this for years and unfortunately politics are in play here for controversy and ratings. It is an anti-Tesla move and takes away some incentive to go green via EV.
Hopefully the people and other states involved can rise up and be smarter on the very fact of exceeding regulation requirements is a good thing.
California has been proactive on this for years and unfortunately politics are in play here for controversy and ratings. It is an anti-Tesla move and takes away some incentive to go green via EV.
Hopefully the people and other states involved can rise up and be smarter on the very fact of exceeding regulation requirements is a good thing.
#7
Lexus Fanatic
Anti Tesla? How? Were there people about to buy one then saw this news and thought, change my mind buying a gas burner.
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#8
What's really dumb about this how it really won't impact any cars of the current generation (or even next one).
So Mr. T is trying to look good in rolling back regulations and what not or anything that makes Tesla's success harder towards a green friendly auto industry. Tesla benefited greatly from of Obama's policies and federal incentive programs.
The very fact Tesla is jumping ahead with full blown gigafactory 3 with China actual wounds Mr. T's feelings and undermines his whole tariff brou-haha and anti-climate change agenda. Credit goes to Musk to jumping ahead of the fray to avoid tariffs.
Any president would be proud of how Tesla is trying to make it on its own as a great american car success story. The state of California is incredibly proud. Of course, Mr. T is not a fan.
Coincidentally, Mr. T pulled out of the global climate deal a few years earlier. So many confusing messages have been sent with the underlying them of undermining the global, multi-national, and multi-state efforts to make it happen.
I would be impressed for once if we had a proposed deal that is better than the one in place, than withdrawing from so many and having so much unfinished business.
Just trying to end on a positive note and not start any political discourse and fights.
#9
Lexus Fanatic
You lost with those arguments, seems like you have an axe to grind more than anything. I will say this, the various climate accords are absolutely worthless except another way of imposing another tax. Especially true since China and India are for some reason exempt, no sane person would agree to an accord that didn't include those countries.
#10
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Thread Starter
I thought this was good news because then automakers wouldn't need to build a California specific vehicle anymore. Perhaps I'm just hoping for cheaper cars for those of us who live in the overpriced regions of the state.
#11
Lexus Fanatic
I watched Elaine Chao (DOT Secretary) and Andrew Wheeler (EPA Chief) today in their joint press-conference. Both made a excellent case for having one set of standards nationwide for the automakers, and not allowing CARB to dictate that nationwide policy. Both of them also appeared sympathetic to customers who don't want expensive BEVs and long-range hybrids forced down their throats without a option for conventional ICEs.
Last edited by mmarshall; 09-19-19 at 10:59 AM.
#14
Lexus Champion
iTrader: (6)
I'm not sure why consumers wouldnt want automakers to improve mpg and CARB year after years? Hitting an average of mpg of 50mpg (fleet wide) or 35mpg individually owned for new cars by 2025 was the goal, and that sounds great for the environment and overall consumers wallets.
I believe one of the argument the current administration is using is that people would be less inclined to purchase new cars as new standards would make cars more costly. Theres got to be some sort of calculation between fuel savings and the overall cost of the new car. Plus it seems like the world is going towards smaller EV and sedans/cuv and away from gasoline anyways.. I say let the automakers be more innovative and do better instead of sticking with the status quo, whether that be EV or gasoline cars.
The automakers who "signed" with California was VW,Ford,BMW and Honda. Toyota was one of the companies that did not sign.Globally, the gas mpg standard is much higher than that 2035 goal
I believe one of the argument the current administration is using is that people would be less inclined to purchase new cars as new standards would make cars more costly. Theres got to be some sort of calculation between fuel savings and the overall cost of the new car. Plus it seems like the world is going towards smaller EV and sedans/cuv and away from gasoline anyways.. I say let the automakers be more innovative and do better instead of sticking with the status quo, whether that be EV or gasoline cars.
The automakers who "signed" with California was VW,Ford,BMW and Honda. Toyota was one of the companies that did not sign.Globally, the gas mpg standard is much higher than that 2035 goal
Last edited by ExTrEmE99; 09-19-19 at 01:12 PM.
#15
Lexus Fanatic
Consumers in general don't give a toss about fuel efficiency look at the top 3 selling vehicles.