EZZ

Plug in Hybrids add a weight penalty and is a compromise between the two. I haven't seen a sporty plug in ever. Plug ins also don't move the needle in terms of driving advanced technology. Toyota is trying to make a statement with this car to drive Hydrogen cars.

The worst thing for this car will be if they put a completely anemic motor in it. If you're going to make a statement, do it right.

Toys4RJill

Plug in hybrids have no range anxiety concerns. No wait times for charging from a depleted battery. Porsche Panamera has a pretty good plug in option for those who like a sporty feel.

GS3Tek

iTrader: (8)

I would be interested in a plug in option if the e- range is good, unlike the prime.

Or black-out anxiety esp. if you don't have solar.

EZZ

The plug ins won't feel like EVs though. The electric motors are secondary engines while the ICE will take the majority of space. The HFC will essentially be EVs using the fuel cell as the source of energy. From a performance standpoint, the HFC car has a much higher performance ceiling if you bake in strong motors.

Hayek

At the moment electric cars are useless due to their long recharging time and hydrogen cars are even more useless due to the lack of fueling stations.

Plug-in hybrid just makes sense.

But if the idea is to "innovate" then why not Flex Plug-in Hybrid? A plug-in hybrid vehicle that runs on petrol (gasoline) and ethanol. Toyota already has the flex hybrid technology. In Brazil they sell the Corolla Hybrid with a flex fuel 1.8 engine.

Toys4RJill

That is sort of obvious.

EZZ

I don't consider 15-20 minutes long at a 75% discount over gas. EVs are the perfect city car and far less pollutive than plug ins.

EZZ

It's obvious Toyota wants to push the next generation technology. Why would they go old tech plug in? It's worthless to push a new platform for old tech. Just stick it in a Rav 4 (or Camry or Corolla etc) and be done with.

Toyota is actually doing the right thing by testing out HFC in attractive cars. Plug ins are just a stop gap for them.

Hayek

A car has to work in town and outside of it. I have a diesel Toyota Fortuner, five minutes and I'm on my way and diesel is cheaper than petrol where I live. In a Tesla or any EV for that matter, I would have to find a hotel to stay the night and finish the journey the next day. That's not progress, that's going to back to the 19th century. Not to mention that sleeping a hotel will be more expensive than filling a fuel tank.

I bet a Corolla driver will get from Los Angeles to Las Vegas quicker than the driver in a Model S. Even a diesel Hilux or Prius driver will arrive in Las Vegas before than the Tesla driver.

Toys4RJill

Toyota is going to offer plug in as the world is not ready to move on from ICE to EV. Hybrid and plug in models help bridge the future transition

EZZ

That's your use case. 99% of my driving is in town commuting and children activities. Why would I plan for that 1% use case I want to travel out of town? Better to rent or take my minivan. In that 99% use case, my car is cheaper to run, cheaper to maintain, much much much faster, and way more fun. I guarantee the cost to refuel my vehicle is far cheaper than your diesel. A lot of people are in my situation so for them, the EV is the far better choice.

Hayek

So basically an EV is for people who can afford to have two, three or more cars.

EZZ

Or live in the city and deal with charging that one time they actually road trip. I can't remember when I didn't fly when I left my city. I won't drive more than 200 miles when flying is dirt cheap

Toys4RJill

EVs are cheap to charge now. But they won’t be in the future. A model S is about $600/year while a Camry hybrid is about 850/year for gas. Eventually there will battery disposal fees, charge taxes or value taxes added to the price or perhaps plates fee increases like they do in some areas.

LeX2K

We don't live in the future but if you want to go there we are probably going to see petrol cars more and more heavily taxed along with gasoline as an incentive to get off fossil fuels. Also fuel fuel economy standards keep going up making it harder and harder for auto makers to meet the minimum average. Ford and others buy carbon credits from Tesla because of this.

On the oft mentioned it only takes 5 minutes to gas up my car trope, sure but if you own an EV and home charger you save a whole bunch of time never having to go to a gas station. Since 95% of all use cases are short trips that means 95% of people with an EV and home charger are not waiting to fuel up.

On disposal fees if you don't pay them to recycle a petrol car there is no reason to pay them on an EV the batteries are no harder to recycle than an engine block, fuel tank, exhaust components etc.