Toyota Camry Mechanical Review: Old vs New
#79
Lexus Champion
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Yeah, actually there's nothing there other than the airbag warnings.
Lexus used to do Toyota glass but even changed glass to say Lexus.
I know you see Toyota when you start taking the car apart for brakes, etc.
#80
Lexus Fanatic
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Lexus vehicles are developed and designed separately from Toyota now, but that’s something that started in the late 2000s, the LS400 project was a unique undertaking for Toyota but it wasn’t like there were two sets of designers and engineers, there weren’t...and the depth of the investment in the LS400 was not replicated when developing other Lexus models...or the gen 3 Camry. It wasn’t even replicated when designing future versions of the LS.
Of course Toyota had a different set of stricter build tolerances and such for Lexus products, but they were/are still Toyota’s. My LS400 had Toyota stamped all over it, and even today the build sticker in the door jamb says “MANUFACTURED BY TOYOTA MOTOR CORP” (says that on every LS430 too).
That’s not a bad thing, like I said Toyota makes great cars and clearly there are tighter tolerances for a Lexus product than a Toyota product, and things Toyota learned from developing the LS were used in development of the Camry, but the Camry was not “developed as a Lexus”. It was a shared platform that was designed to have a Lexus variant, and it was a product positioned to be a stepping stone from Toyota to Lexus.
Toyota has made several very solid high end cars that of course feel like a Lexus because a Lexus is a high end Toyota. The Cressida comes to mind; the late 80s early 90s Cressidas felt very Lexus like and looked very Lexus like. Doesn’t mean they were “designed to be a Lexus”.
As for knowing the brand. I’ve owned at least one Lexus every moment of the past 21 years. I’ve owned 7. I think I know the brand a little bit.
When you make a statement like "it was designed to be a Lexus" the implication of that statement is that Toyota designed the Gen 3 Camry to be a Lexus model, and then at the last minute decided "you know what, lets make this a Toyota instead"...which isn't accurate. Thats something Toyota salesmen said in 1993 to talk people into buying a Camry. The Gen 3 Camry was always designed to be the Gen 3 Camry, it was simply designed as a platform that would include a Lexus variant in the ES300, and benefitted from things developed for the LS and things learned from designing and building the LS (which is something all Toyota models benefitted from. Which is true of the Gen 4 Camry, Gen 5 Camry on and on.
The ONLY platform that was "designed to be a Lexus" in the lineup in the 90s was the LS. You can make an argument for the SC, but its not as clear an argument as for the LS. The ES was developed off of the Camry platform, the GS was a rebadged version of Aristo which was on sale in Japan for a couple of years before they brought it here and was derived off of the Crown platform which had been around in one iteration or another for a long time.
Of course Toyota had a different set of stricter build tolerances and such for Lexus products, but they were/are still Toyota’s. My LS400 had Toyota stamped all over it, and even today the build sticker in the door jamb says “MANUFACTURED BY TOYOTA MOTOR CORP” (says that on every LS430 too).
That’s not a bad thing, like I said Toyota makes great cars and clearly there are tighter tolerances for a Lexus product than a Toyota product, and things Toyota learned from developing the LS were used in development of the Camry, but the Camry was not “developed as a Lexus”. It was a shared platform that was designed to have a Lexus variant, and it was a product positioned to be a stepping stone from Toyota to Lexus.
Toyota has made several very solid high end cars that of course feel like a Lexus because a Lexus is a high end Toyota. The Cressida comes to mind; the late 80s early 90s Cressidas felt very Lexus like and looked very Lexus like. Doesn’t mean they were “designed to be a Lexus”.
As for knowing the brand. I’ve owned at least one Lexus every moment of the past 21 years. I’ve owned 7. I think I know the brand a little bit.
When you make a statement like "it was designed to be a Lexus" the implication of that statement is that Toyota designed the Gen 3 Camry to be a Lexus model, and then at the last minute decided "you know what, lets make this a Toyota instead"...which isn't accurate. Thats something Toyota salesmen said in 1993 to talk people into buying a Camry. The Gen 3 Camry was always designed to be the Gen 3 Camry, it was simply designed as a platform that would include a Lexus variant in the ES300, and benefitted from things developed for the LS and things learned from designing and building the LS (which is something all Toyota models benefitted from. Which is true of the Gen 4 Camry, Gen 5 Camry on and on.
The ONLY platform that was "designed to be a Lexus" in the lineup in the 90s was the LS. You can make an argument for the SC, but its not as clear an argument as for the LS. The ES was developed off of the Camry platform, the GS was a rebadged version of Aristo which was on sale in Japan for a couple of years before they brought it here and was derived off of the Crown platform which had been around in one iteration or another for a long time.
Last edited by SW17LS; 10-31-19 at 09:20 PM.
#81
Lexus Fanatic
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I can't see Toyota having a set of engineers designing the Avalon, and then a whole different set of engineers designing the ES...Same with LX or Land Cruiser which carry the same platform codes since, forever. A UX uses a Corolla engine.....A GX uses parts from various Toyota models all over the place.
The Lexus SC platform was shared for the 1993 Toyota Supra. Both built in the same plant .
Just felt like doing some fact-checking. The Camry (optional V6) and ES300 of the is era have identical powertrains. So if they developed the top-spec powertrain to be used in a Lexus of that era, then also offered in the optional Camry, seems like they designed some of that Camry to be a Lexus. The Camry and Lexus ES were both Xv20 and then XV30 models
When you make a statement like "it was designed to be a Lexus" the implication of that statement is that Toyota designed the Gen 3 Camry to be a Lexus model, and then at the last minute decided "you know what, lets make this a Toyota instead"...which isn't accurate. Thats something Toyota salesmen said in 1993 to talk people into buying a Camry. The Gen 3 Camry was always designed to be the Gen 3 Camry, it was simply designed as a platform that would include a Lexus variant in the ES300, and benefitted from things developed for the LS and things learned from designing and building the LS (which is something all Toyota models benefitted from. Which is true of the Gen 4 Camry, Gen 5 Camry on and on.
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Last edited by Toys4RJill; 11-02-19 at 07:19 AM.
#82
Lexus Fanatic
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I can't see Toyota having a set of engineers designing the Avalon, and then a whole different set of engineers designing the ES...Same with LX or Land Cruiser which carry the same platform codes since, forever. A UX uses a Corolla engine.....A GX uses parts from various Toyota models all over the place.
EDIT: Here you go, it was in 2005:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexus#...reorganization
In 2005, Lexus completed an organizational separation from parent company Toyota,[63] with dedicated design, engineering, training, and manufacturing centers working exclusively for the division.[64][65] This effort coincided with Lexus' launch in its home market of Japan and an expanded global launch of the brand in markets such as China.[
The Lexus SC platform was shared for the 1993 Toyota Supra. Both built in the same plant .
Just felt like doing some fact-checking. The Camry (optional V6) and ES300 of the is era have identical powertrains. So if they developed the top-spec powertrain to be used in a Lexus of that era, then also offered in the optional Camry, seems like they designed some of that Camry to be a Lexus. The Camry and Lexus ES were both Xv20 and then XV30 models
Last edited by SW17LS; 11-02-19 at 11:52 AM.
#83
Lexus Fanatic
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But this is not true. The Toyota Celsior is the Japan version, they are the same vehicle. The original LS400 motor was never an exclusive use for Lexus...neither was the 4.3..neither was the 4.6
This is not true. There is no such thing as Lexus design studio, Calty designed the LC (also the Tundra or SC Lexus for reference) and the LC was then sent to the Toyota Technical center in Japan for final design.
This is not true. There is no such thing as Lexus design studio, Calty designed the LC (also the Tundra or SC Lexus for reference) and the LC was then sent to the Toyota Technical center in Japan for final design.
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 11-02-19 at 11:55 AM.
#84
Lexus Champion
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It was designed for us. Lexus spent years researching what Americans liked and wanted.
#85
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This is not true. There is no such thing as Lexus design studio, Calty designed the LC and then it was sent to the Toyota Technical
center in Japan for final design.
center in Japan for final design.
#86
Lexus Fanatic
#87
Lexus Fanatic
#88
Lexus Fanatic
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Still a high-end Toyota in other parts of the world. The Lexus brand never existed in the Japan market at the time, but the Toyota Celsior did exist.
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 11-02-19 at 12:09 PM.
#89
Lexus Fanatic
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I’ve agreed with a lot of what you’ve said here, but you’re just totally wrong about the LS sorry lol. Read.
#90
Lexus Champion
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Yes, with the original 4.0 Lexus had 3 main goals:
1. 23MPG (avoid US gas guzzler tax)
2. 150MPH top speed (just for show, obviously)
3. I can't remember ugh. Maybe the 250hp rating.
1. 23MPG (avoid US gas guzzler tax)
2. 150MPH top speed (just for show, obviously)
3. I can't remember ugh. Maybe the 250hp rating.