2020 Highlander
04-10-20, 11:36 AM
#436
Lexus Fanatic
What you’re saying is just marketing doublespeak. The vehicles are direct competitors and they go after the same buyer demographic.
As for the Highlander being the best seller, it is. Like i said I think people are primarily buying it because it’s a Toyota, and those buyers aren’t really seriously cross shopping the car. Toyota didn’t work outside their box to improve the vehicle, they just basically redesigned what they have. They aren’t working to capture new buyers, just tread water. That’s my exact point, other carmakers are working hard to capture new buyers and the product reflects that.
And look at the number one dislike in your quote “storage and space”.
As for the Highlander being the best seller, it is. Like i said I think people are primarily buying it because it’s a Toyota, and those buyers aren’t really seriously cross shopping the car. Toyota didn’t work outside their box to improve the vehicle, they just basically redesigned what they have. They aren’t working to capture new buyers, just tread water. That’s my exact point, other carmakers are working hard to capture new buyers and the product reflects that.
And look at the number one dislike in your quote “storage and space”.
04-10-20, 12:06 PM
#437
Lexus Fanatic
What you’re saying is just marketing doublespeak. The vehicles are direct competitors and they go after the same buyer demographic.
As for the Highlander being the best seller, it is. Like i said I think people are primarily buying it because it’s a Toyota, and those buyers aren’t really seriously cross shopping the car. Toyota didn’t work outside their box to improve the vehicle, they just basically redesigned what they have. They aren’t working to capture new buyers, just tread water. That’s my exact point, other carmakers are working hard to capture new buyers and the product reflects that.
And look at the number one dislike in your quote “storage and space”.
As for the Highlander being the best seller, it is. Like i said I think people are primarily buying it because it’s a Toyota, and those buyers aren’t really seriously cross shopping the car. Toyota didn’t work outside their box to improve the vehicle, they just basically redesigned what they have. They aren’t working to capture new buyers, just tread water. That’s my exact point, other carmakers are working hard to capture new buyers and the product reflects that.
And look at the number one dislike in your quote “storage and space”.
Storage and space are not referring to just third-row space....Toyota increased the rear cargo.
04-10-20, 01:00 PM
#438
Lexus Fanatic
Storage and space absolutely has to do with passenger room as well as storage. BTW cargo capacity is also a low point for the Highlander.
My point stands. Some small changes to the packaging of the Highlander would have resulted in a much better vehicle that would appeal to
all of us. If the Highlander were the same size and package of the Palisade for an example you wouldn’t like it any less, but I would like it a lot more.
You think it’s fine for someone your age, but you aren’t in the market for this vehicle, I am.
My point stands. Some small changes to the packaging of the Highlander would have resulted in a much better vehicle that would appeal to
all of us. If the Highlander were the same size and package of the Palisade for an example you wouldn’t like it any less, but I would like it a lot more.
You think it’s fine for someone your age, but you aren’t in the market for this vehicle, I am.
04-10-20, 06:42 PM
#439
I see that Jill's goalpost moving is back in action. Seriously, Hyundai not competitors with Toyota? Hyundai Motor Group is literally the third largest automobile manufacturer in the world behind VAG and Toyota (and no I'm not counting that recent Peugot-FCA merger). They're far more of a competitor to Toyota than companies like Honda or Ford could dream of being.
You can fanboy over Toyota being infallible all you want, but resorting to deliberate misinformation like this is laughable. The top-of-the line 2.5 4-cylinder turbo engine in the Sonata N-Line is around 300 horsepower- it's the same as the one in the upcoming Genesis G80 base model. And with 310 lb-feet of torque, it trounces even the Camry V6. It's by far the most powerful engine in its class. Hyundai's new engines also use continuous variable valve duration- a world first. You seem to think that high horsepower somehow equals a better engine, without realizing that Hyundai themselves have lowered the overall power of their engines since 2015 or so in favor of making the power band available at lower RPMs. The old Hyundai 1.6L Gamma turbo found in the last-gen Sonata made around 202 horsepower- well above that of the current Accord 1.5T. Hyundai is also starting to utilize 48V mild hybrid electrical systems in their drivetrains like VAG, which Toyota has yet to touch.
As for AWD? That will soon be found in the Optima GT (the Kia-branded version of the Sonata) using the same 2.5 turbo as the Sonata N-line. Not only that, but it's a torque-vectoring AWD system. The Camry and Avalon AWD can't compete with the Optima GT because their engines available for AWD are far weaker, and Toyota can't figure out how to pair their V6 with AWD either in their FWD sedans, nor do they have the torque vectoring capabilities of the Optima. Hyundai/Kia can do this because they designed their own wet DCT to handle the power band and distribute it evenly- while Toyota has yet to even design a regular DCT!
What else does Toyota not have that Hyundai/Kia are already making strides in? Oh yes, how about the one thing that will make all hybrids obsolete: electric vehicles. How many EVs does Toyota have on the road?
I could go onto other superficial topics like in-vehicle technology and infotainment and phone integration, where Hyundai/Kia absolutely murder Toyota (who couldn't even put Android Auto and Apple Carplay into their lineup until a year ago, while Hyundai was the first manufacturer to have them both back in 2015 and are now moving onto wireless versions), but that's merely the icing on the cake.
Toyota is a good company, but to claim that Hyundai is technologically behind them in any way shape or form is completely laughable. If anything, I would claim the opposite, as Toyota sits on their "reliability" reputation to churn out uncompetitive vehicles. Yes they'll sell, but not because the people buying them care for much more than the reputation of the badge.
Here is a perfect example of where Honda and Toyota are ahead of Hyundai. The Toyota Camry with a base engine is a 204hp motor, the optional motor is 300+ and is a V6 used in the GS and (I think) LS500h. Honda is clearing 252hp with their top Accord engines. Hyundai on the other, despide have a .5 litre larger engine, maxs out at 191hp....the engine technology in a Toyota or Honda is superior to that of the brand spanking new Sonota...this is just one part where they are ahead. There is no awd Sonota that I know of, but there is a Camry awd coming.
As for AWD? That will soon be found in the Optima GT (the Kia-branded version of the Sonata) using the same 2.5 turbo as the Sonata N-line. Not only that, but it's a torque-vectoring AWD system. The Camry and Avalon AWD can't compete with the Optima GT because their engines available for AWD are far weaker, and Toyota can't figure out how to pair their V6 with AWD either in their FWD sedans, nor do they have the torque vectoring capabilities of the Optima. Hyundai/Kia can do this because they designed their own wet DCT to handle the power band and distribute it evenly- while Toyota has yet to even design a regular DCT!
What else does Toyota not have that Hyundai/Kia are already making strides in? Oh yes, how about the one thing that will make all hybrids obsolete: electric vehicles. How many EVs does Toyota have on the road?
I could go onto other superficial topics like in-vehicle technology and infotainment and phone integration, where Hyundai/Kia absolutely murder Toyota (who couldn't even put Android Auto and Apple Carplay into their lineup until a year ago, while Hyundai was the first manufacturer to have them both back in 2015 and are now moving onto wireless versions), but that's merely the icing on the cake.
Toyota is a good company, but to claim that Hyundai is technologically behind them in any way shape or form is completely laughable. If anything, I would claim the opposite, as Toyota sits on their "reliability" reputation to churn out uncompetitive vehicles. Yes they'll sell, but not because the people buying them care for much more than the reputation of the badge.
Last edited by Motorola; 04-10-20 at 07:16 PM.
04-10-20, 07:26 PM
#440
Ah, but hey, it's "reliable" so we can just wave away all its inexcusable faults right?
Last edited by Motorola; 04-10-20 at 07:30 PM.
04-10-20, 08:58 PM
#441
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Toyota and Hyundai are competitors. They dont both service exery exact same segment but that doesnt mean they aren't competitors. See pbm's post above for the issues with your logic.
I agree Toyota is ahead, thats obvious, but Hyundai Is working hard to redesign their cars and make them the best they can be each model at a time, and they are getting better and better. What I dont see from Toyota is the drive and attempt to make their cars better and better like I see from Hyundai, and I see more than Toyota from Honda, I see that drive in other companies too like Mazda.
You keep trying to move the issue of the Highlander away from the third row of seats, but that is the feature that DEFINES this segment of vehicles. The segment is named after that feature! Family vehicle buyers don't look at horsepower and torque vectoring and whatever more than they look at space and comfort for their families. Thats the whole point of buying such a vehicle is what you miss. NOBODY is going to say "I really like that there is less room in this third row"
As for hybrids, the only company focusing on Hybrids is Toyota. If people want to buy a hybrid, thats really their only place to go. I'm not a hybrid guy, in fact I avoid hybrids so that doesn't bother me.
I agree Toyota is ahead, thats obvious, but Hyundai Is working hard to redesign their cars and make them the best they can be each model at a time, and they are getting better and better. What I dont see from Toyota is the drive and attempt to make their cars better and better like I see from Hyundai, and I see more than Toyota from Honda, I see that drive in other companies too like Mazda.
You keep trying to move the issue of the Highlander away from the third row of seats, but that is the feature that DEFINES this segment of vehicles. The segment is named after that feature! Family vehicle buyers don't look at horsepower and torque vectoring and whatever more than they look at space and comfort for their families. Thats the whole point of buying such a vehicle is what you miss. NOBODY is going to say "I really like that there is less room in this third row"
As for hybrids, the only company focusing on Hybrids is Toyota. If people want to buy a hybrid, thats really their only place to go. I'm not a hybrid guy, in fact I avoid hybrids so that doesn't bother me.
Another area where Toyota is slowly transforming the industry IMO is hybrids. If I am not mistaken they sold more hybrids in 2019 than all electric vehicles combined in the US. Other mainstream manufacturers like Hyundai, Honda etc will have to add more hybrids if they have to remain competitive. As things stand today Toyota has a big lead in that area and thier hybrid strategy seems to be paying off.
Last edited by sorptd; 04-10-20 at 09:01 PM.
04-11-20, 07:19 PM
#442
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
Whether toyota and hyundai/kia are competitors: argument #492. 
04-12-20, 07:37 AM
#443
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
04-12-20, 07:47 AM
#444
Lexus Fanatic
What you are saying about Hyundai being more driven was true few years back but lately Toyota is also putting lot of effort in their redesigns. New Camry, RAV4, Corolla etc are all done very well.
Another area where Toyota is slowly transforming the industry IMO is hybrids. If I am not mistaken they sold more hybrids in 2019 than all electric vehicles combined in the US. Other mainstream manufacturers like Hyundai, Honda etc will have to add more hybrids if they have to remain competitive. As things stand today Toyota has a big lead in that area and thier hybrid strategy seems to be paying off.
Another area where Toyota is slowly transforming the industry IMO is hybrids. If I am not mistaken they sold more hybrids in 2019 than all electric vehicles combined in the US. Other mainstream manufacturers like Hyundai, Honda etc will have to add more hybrids if they have to remain competitive. As things stand today Toyota has a big lead in that area and thier hybrid strategy seems to be paying off.
Lets and Toyota Avalon to the list.The new Hyundai engines in the new designs are nowhere close to the Dynamic Force engines Toyota is debuting. Toyota, as well as Honda, have distanced themselves over Hyundai.
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 04-12-20 at 07:53 AM.
04-12-20, 08:26 AM
#445
Lexus Test Driver
Hyundai will invest $87B in the next 5 years for EV development. They're essentially ramping down their ICE development like VW and GM. BMW has also diverted significant R&D away from ICE to EV. It's not surprising that Hyundai isn't offering significantly different powertrains as they've put their eggs in the EV path forward.
04-12-20, 08:32 AM
#446
Lexus Test Driver
Kia just won 2 out of 4 Worlds Best car award with the Telluride and Soul. Koreans must be doing something right...
https://gearpatrol.com/2020/04/12/be...he-world-2020/
These 4 Cars Were Just Named the Best in the World
April 12, 2020 | Tyler Duffy | Cars :
The World Car Awards normally are announced at the New York International Auto Show. However, with the show postponed due to the coronavirus pandemic, the 2020 awards were announced digitally, instead. More than 80 jurors from across the world came together to determine the best cars across five different categories. There were four winners.
Kia is the big winner, with wins for World Car of the Year with the Telluride SUV and Urban Car of the Year with the Soul EV. The new Porsche Taycan EV took home awards for the best luxury car and the best performance car. Mazda also had a strong year, with two of the three finalists for World Car of the Year and the Mazda 3 taking home World Car Design of the Year.
https://gearpatrol.com/2020/04/12/be...he-world-2020/
These 4 Cars Were Just Named the Best in the World
April 12, 2020 | Tyler Duffy | Cars :
The World Car Awards normally are announced at the New York International Auto Show. However, with the show postponed due to the coronavirus pandemic, the 2020 awards were announced digitally, instead. More than 80 jurors from across the world came together to determine the best cars across five different categories. There were four winners.
Kia is the big winner, with wins for World Car of the Year with the Telluride SUV and Urban Car of the Year with the Soul EV. The new Porsche Taycan EV took home awards for the best luxury car and the best performance car. Mazda also had a strong year, with two of the three finalists for World Car of the Year and the Mazda 3 taking home World Car Design of the Year.
04-12-20, 10:19 AM
#447
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
ok folks, this thread is about the TOYOTA HIGHLANDER, not hyundai's investments, or whether who has the superior engines.
if you want a highlander vs. palisade thread, or a toyota vs hyundai, go for it, but not here.
if you want a highlander vs. palisade thread, or a toyota vs hyundai, go for it, but not here.
04-12-20, 10:27 AM
#448
Lexus Fanatic
Toyota has the largest screen in the class 
I know there are a lot of tech folks out there, so Toyota hits the mark on the screen size. The Apple Car Play split-screen is the smartest thing Toyota could have done IMO.
A negative is that there is no dedicated phone button like on the Avalon.
Source
I know there are a lot of tech folks out there, so Toyota hits the mark on the screen size. The Apple Car Play split-screen is the smartest thing Toyota could have done IMO. A negative is that there is no dedicated phone button like on the Avalon.
Source
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 04-12-20 at 10:31 AM.
04-12-20, 10:51 AM
#449
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
big screen yes 
but hate the way it sits in the dash and its surround. 
but hate the way it sits in the dash and its surround.
04-12-20, 11:13 AM
#450
Lexus Fanatic
Here is another video and more in-depth. Not the fastest infotainment, but I have read and heard it is the way it is as Toyota wants the system to be reliable for 15 years