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It is a fact that Lexus is languishing behind with their SUV lineup, and before that, it was their car lineup. It is the same situation with Toyota. Once the TNGA for their cars were done baking, they rolled out updates to their cars fast and furious. Once their TNGA BOF platform is done baking, updates will start rolling out fast and furious as well. I believe they focused on updating their cars first simply because the car market was falling and they needed to prop it up while their SUVs will still sell well regardless in the meantime, in hindsight.
Their biggest mistake was spending years and tons of money on the LC500. Their entire product portfolio, including new powertrains could have been updated by now if the efforts wasnt spend on creating a low volume sports car with an outdated engine. I mean what was the point in creating a product that was not competitive performance wise in it's price range when your entire product and powertrain portfolio needed the resources, both monetary and human?
LC500 has very little to do with engine engineering evolution. LC was made so Lexus could introduce the new model that would use old engines still in the production. Engine evolution gap is something that has happened way before LC was greenlit. Whole stagnation of LS and and no new dedicated model set in stone suggests some turmoil within the company. In short they lost the direction and that was it, damage has been done and it will take them another LS generation to try and fix things so the generation after next generation LS could be a big seller once again. We are talking about MY2032 btw.
Toyota uses 8 speeds in their LC and LX. But GM uses cylinder deactivation and start stop. But start stop is annoying and is unwanted. Toyota has different gearing as well.
I have start/stop on my RX 450h & it’s not annoying. It changes the sounds, but it’s fairly seamless. My Camaro SS is a 6.2 & DOES NOT have cylinder deactivation. It gets better & more consistent highway mpg than my 450h. It weighs a few hundred pounds less than the Lexus. Go figure.
I have start/stop on my RX 450h & it’s not annoying. It changes the sounds, but it’s fairly seamless.
That's because, on a hybrid, the electric motor, not a separate starter, usually spins up the gas engine.
My Camaro SS is a 6.2 & DOES NOT have cylinder deactivation. It gets better & more consistent highway mpg than my 450h. It weighs a few hundred pounds less than the Lexus. Go figure.
Your Camaro is probably lighter and more aerodynamic than a RX. In addition, GM gears its V8s (and some of its V6s) down to the point where they are barely off-idle at cruising speeds.....they simply aren't turning any RPMs, to keep fuel-use down.
Yes...or gone with a for fuel efficient transmission that would have bumped the mpg closer to 18. Chevy & GMC pickups with a 6.2 V-8 are achieving 18-20 mpg, yet Toyota does nothing. Granted, GM trucks have more issues, but they have the right technology formula & Toyota doesn’t seem interested.
So I don't expect you agree with me...or the EPA. But try to see things from my point of view.
A Toyota Land Cruiser and Tundra with the 5.7 are cheaper to operate by driving the same distance over the course of the year (numbers from the EPA tests). To achieve the stellar (but not really stellar) fuel economy of the 6.2 based on EPA, you need premium in the GM 6.2...Tundra matches the 5.7 of the RAM as well for $$$$ Cost to drive is cheaper in the Toyota models.
Originally Posted by gadgetman1
I have start/stop on my RX 450h & it’s not annoying. It changes the sounds, but it’s fairly seamless. My Camaro SS is a 6.2 & DOES NOT have cylinder deactivation. It gets better & more consistent highway mpg than my 450h. It weighs a few hundred pounds less than the Lexus. Go figure.
Toyota hybrid system in the RX you have are totally different than an standard stop start.
Originally Posted by gadgetman1
mpg than my 450h. It weighs a few hundred pounds less than the Lexus. Go figure.
Despite excellent MPG of your RXh...it costs just $150 more per year to drive the same distance of 15,000 in an RX350 than it does a RXh....RXh requires premium to hit the EPA miles. The intention of the RXh was to be an alternative so you could have "performance" The hybrid system you have achieves V8 like performance (for that era), but it achieves V6 fuel efficiency.
Wait a sec, my 450h costs MORE in fuel than a 350? Really? I get high-20s in city driving.
And as dozens of nearby threads have discussed to death, regular fuel works fine, with only a slight hit on HP and mileage.
On the highway, I can easily get 30mpg--at 50-ish speeds. Go 75mph and the mileage drops to mid-20s. I attribute that to a non-slippery profile.
One other thing, more closely related to the original topic: how is it that the complaint is that Lexus has blown it when compared to others when the attached graph shows otherwise? (To be honest, I can't remember where the graph came from.)
So I don't expect you agree with me...or the EPA. But try to see things from my point of view.
A Toyota Land Cruiser and Tundra with the 5.7 are cheaper to operate by driving the same distance over the course of the year (numbers from the EPA tests). To achieve the stellar (but not really stellar) fuel economy of the 6.2 based on EPA, you need premium in the GM 6.2...Tundra matches the 5.7 of the RAM as well for $$$$ Cost to drive is cheaper in the Toyota models.
Toyota hybrid system in the RX you have are totally different than an standard stop start.
Despite excellent MPG of your RXh...it costs just $150 more per year to drive the same distance of 15,000 in an RX350 than it does a RXh....RXh requires premium to hit the EPA miles. The intention of the RXh was to be an alternative so you could have "performance" The hybrid system you have achieves V8 like performance (for that era), but it achieves V6 fuel efficiency.
I don’t go by the EPA mpg numbers, I go by what I have personally achieved or people I trust achieve. The EPA estimates are usually WAY off. I have run premium, mid grade & 87 octane in my 450h & my best mpg comes from 87 octane Top Tier fuel. My 450h has NEVER delivered the EPA rated mpg, even with other drivers, so it NOT my style of driving.
I don’t go by the EPA mpg numbers, I go by what I have personally achieved or people I trust achieve. The EPA estimates are usually WAY off. I have run premium, mid grade & 87 octane in my 450h & my best mpg comes from 87 octane Top Tier fuel. My 450h has NEVER delivered the EPA rated mpg, even with other drivers, so it NOT my style of driving.
^ this. Most of these MPG ratings from factory are only achievable in the perfect storm of absolutely ideal conditions.
LexCTJill - good post with epa numbers... took me a while to understand the non-toyotas cost more despite getting better fuel economy, because they use premium. It's early, i need more coffee...
I don’t go by the EPA mpg numbers, I go by what I have personally achieved or people I trust achieve. The EPA estimates are usually WAY off. I have run premium, mid grade & 87 octane in my 450h & my best mpg comes from 87 octane Top Tier fuel. My 450h has NEVER delivered the EPA rated mpg, even with other drivers, so it NOT my style of driving.
Try lightening up a little with the right foot, and, especially under mild weather conditions, you probably will get EPA numbers...or close to them. The more stress and power-demands you put on your engine, the more fuel it is likely to use.
LC500 has very little to do with engine engineering evolution. LC was made so Lexus could introduce the new model that would use old engines still in the production. Engine evolution gap is something that has happened way before LC was greenlit. Whole stagnation of LS and and no new dedicated model set in stone suggests some turmoil within the company. In short they lost the direction and that was it, damage has been done and it will take them another LS generation to try and fix things so the generation after next generation LS could be a big seller once again. We are talking about MY2032 btw.
The LC500 was the right car at the wrong time. Or the right car at the wrong price.
LexCTJill - good post with epa numbers... took me a while to understand the non-toyotas cost more despite getting better fuel economy, because they use premium.
As far as total vehicle cost, there are also other factors besides fuel-mileage, such as the (comparatively) greater depreciation of the Korean brands. Given the quality of today's Hyundais and Kias, IMO, their greater depreciation over Toyotas is not (or no longer) justified, but that's the reality of the auto market.
It's early, i need more coffee...
As for the coffee, may I suggest Starbucks French or Italian Roast? I don't think you will be disappointed.
Given the quality of today's Hyundais and Kias, IMO, their greater depreciation over Toyotas is not (or no longer) justified, but that's the reality of the auto market.
The Toyota vehicles lead in low depreciation because every piece of available evidence demonstrates they last longer and are more reliable. The Korean brand cars do not last as long.
The LC500 was the right car at the wrong time. Or the right car at the wrong price.
For me it was the right car with the wrong engine. It's one of the best looking Lexus' I've seen in a long time but the engine is just so long in the tooth even though it is a good engine. If you are going to build something so fresh and new, why not include a fresh and new engine too, even a nicely tuned LS500 engine would have been nice.
01-07-20, 09:42 AM
took me a while to understand the non-toyotas cost more despite getting better fuel economy, because they use premium. It's early, i need more coffee... 
