Lexus Confronts Midlife Crisis With Aging SUVs Losing to Rivals
01-08-20, 06:26 PM
#211
Lexus Fanatic
You talk a lot about BMW's superiority and talk so poorly of Lexus. People reading your posts will think you advocating for Lexus' competition. I want to see some new Lexus vehicles as well with new features as well. Maybe some of these new features require further testing before Lexus thinks they can meet their reliability and safety requirements. Example, wireless carplay and motors with more boost. Question for ya. If you were going to spend $100,000+ cash of your own money to buy a vehicle, would you buy a Lexus or German right now? Taking into account Reliability and Depreciation.
I don’t think it has anything to do with “testing”, I think they’ve gotten cheap and complacent and have stopped trying. I think the competition offers the consumer a lot more right now at prices over $50-60k
If I were to spend $100,000 on a new vehicle right now? No question I would not buy a Lexus right now at that price level. What would I buy? I’d buy an S Class or 7 Series, perhaps a Range Rover. The current LS doesn’t impress me, the LC isn’t practical for me and the LX doesn’t appeal to me at all.
Remember Lexus only sells 3 cars that can even be optioned to $100k. Really only 2 cars, I don’t think the LX can get there.
01-08-20, 06:40 PM
#212
I think I have been posting here a long time and those that know me know that I’m a Lexus fan. True that right now I’m very frustrated with the brand. You’re looking at a few weeks of my posts vs many years.
I don’t think it has anything to do with “testing”, I think they’ve gotten cheap and complacent and have stopped trying. I think the competition offers the consumer a lot more right now at prices over $50-60k
If I were to spend $100,000 on a new vehicle right now? No question I would not buy a Lexus right now at that price level. What would I buy? I’d buy an S Class or 7 Series, perhaps a Range Rover. The current LS doesn’t impress me, the LC isn’t practical for me and the LX doesn’t appeal to me at all.
Remember Lexus only sells 3 cars that can even be optioned to $100k. Really only 2 cars, I don’t think the LX can get there.
I don’t think it has anything to do with “testing”, I think they’ve gotten cheap and complacent and have stopped trying. I think the competition offers the consumer a lot more right now at prices over $50-60k
If I were to spend $100,000 on a new vehicle right now? No question I would not buy a Lexus right now at that price level. What would I buy? I’d buy an S Class or 7 Series, perhaps a Range Rover. The current LS doesn’t impress me, the LC isn’t practical for me and the LX doesn’t appeal to me at all.
Remember Lexus only sells 3 cars that can even be optioned to $100k. Really only 2 cars, I don’t think the LX can get there.
01-08-20, 06:54 PM
#213
Lexus Fanatic
I lease, I don’t care about depreciation or maintenance costs out of warranty. The depreciation of the LS is pretty terrible too.
The LS500 is not a bad car, it’s just not the spacious, cushy full-size luxury car it always was. Technology of course is way, way behind.
Thats the point though, MB and BMW have many models over $100k. Lexus has two that will get there without dealer add ons. Lexus just doesn’t play in that space.
The LS500 is not a bad car, it’s just not the spacious, cushy full-size luxury car it always was. Technology of course is way, way behind.
Thats the point though, MB and BMW have many models over $100k. Lexus has two that will get there without dealer add ons. Lexus just doesn’t play in that space.
01-08-20, 07:11 PM
#214
I lease, I don’t care about depreciation or maintenance costs out of warranty. The depreciation of the LS is pretty terrible too.
The LS500 is not a bad car, it’s just not the spacious, cushy full-size luxury car it always was. Technology of course is way, way behind.
Thats the point though, MB and BMW have many models over $100k. Lexus has two that will get there without dealer add ons. Lexus just doesn’t play in that space.
The LS500 is not a bad car, it’s just not the spacious, cushy full-size luxury car it always was. Technology of course is way, way behind.
Thats the point though, MB and BMW have many models over $100k. Lexus has two that will get there without dealer add ons. Lexus just doesn’t play in that space.
01-08-20, 07:16 PM
#215
Lead Lap
You talk a lot about BMW's superiority and talk so poorly of Lexus. People reading your posts will think you advocating for Lexus' competition. I want to see some new Lexus vehicles as well with new features as well. Maybe some of these new features require further testing before Lexus thinks they can meet their reliability and safety requirements. Example, wireless carplay and motors with more boost. Question for ya. If you were going to spend $100,000+ cash of your own money to buy a vehicle, would you buy a Lexus or German right now? Taking into account Reliability and Depreciation.
01-08-20, 07:30 PM
#216
I know you didn’t pose the question to me but if I were to spend $100k to purchase a car it would be a Lexus over a German brand right now. I have a long history with Lexus and I know what I am getting with them in terms of reliability and resale, not so much with a German brand.
01-08-20, 07:42 PM
#217
Lexus Fanatic
That's why I said buy, not lease. If you pay with your own money the complete cost of the vehicle for something that expensive, other factors come into play. Another interesting thing to look at is the cost of extended warranties. That will tell you a lot about how they expect it to hold up. Lexus is cheap compared to the Germans. Maybe Lexus doesn't have many cars over $100,000 because the others are overpriced! Example, if you try to option a 911 like a LC with performance package...it's going to cost a lot lot more. Think $150,000+ range. You want alacantara headliner, that's extra. You want, 4 wheel steering, extra. You want carbon fibre roof, extra. Premium audio, extra. Not to mention it's almost impossible to find a Porsche or some BMW's equipped like you want if you don't custom order. Usually if I am not too picky on color, Lexus will get me what I ask for quickly. Lexus is very good at putting packages of options together.
As for all the other cars "being overpriced" the market disagrees because people buy more of them at higher prices than comparable considerably less expensive Lexus models. People are willing to pay for a product that they perceive as being the best product. Why do you think the S Class can outsell everything else in the segment so handily despite being the most expensive car?
And a 911 is going to cost a lot more optioned like an LC, but you get a 911, and again...Porsche sells 9 times as many 911s as Lexus sells LCs. 9,200 911s in 2019 and only 1,200 LCs.
For the S Class, Mercedes sells 2.5 times as many S Classes as Lexus does LS sedans. The LS is selling so poorly, 2019 was its second worst sales year ever, meaning the only year it outsold any other previous LS was 2017, the last year of the LS460. That means it was outsold by the LS460 in 2016 when that model had been on sale in the US for 9 model years. And 2019 was only the second year of an all new model a decade in the making. Thats horrible.
Clearly, Lexus has an issue here.
Last edited by SW17LS; 01-08-20 at 08:02 PM.
01-08-20, 08:02 PM
#218
I would never buy any car over $100,000.
As for all the other cars "being overpriced" the market disagrees because people buy more of them at higher prices than comparable considerably less expensive Lexus models. People are willing to pay for a product that they perceive as being the best product. Why do you think the S Class can outsell everything else in the segment so handily despite being the most expensive car?
And a 911 is going to cost a lot more optioned like an LC, but you get a 911, and again...Porsche sells 9 times as many 911s as Lexus sells LCs. 9,200 911s in 2019 and only 1,200 LCs.
As for all the other cars "being overpriced" the market disagrees because people buy more of them at higher prices than comparable considerably less expensive Lexus models. People are willing to pay for a product that they perceive as being the best product. Why do you think the S Class can outsell everything else in the segment so handily despite being the most expensive car?
And a 911 is going to cost a lot more optioned like an LC, but you get a 911, and again...Porsche sells 9 times as many 911s as Lexus sells LCs. 9,200 911s in 2019 and only 1,200 LCs.
You don't have to be like everyone else. I'm not the only one who has chose a LC over a 911. When you buy a LC...you get a LC! On Hagerty's list of future collectibles. The 718 GTS I had was on there...not the 911. Call me crazy, but I kinda like the new LS.
Last edited by Frog98; 01-08-20 at 08:10 PM.
01-08-20, 08:06 PM
#219
Lexus Fanatic
Exclusivity my friend. I have a performance package LC 500 Nightfall Mica with toasted caramel interior. Tell me how many other 2020 LC 500's you find for sale like that You don't have to be like everyone else. I'm not the only one who has chose a LC over a 911. When you buy and LC...you get a LC! On Hagerty's list of future collectibles.
You don't have to be like everyone else. I'm not the only one who has chose a LC over a 911. When you buy and LC...you get a LC! On Hagerty's list of future collectibles.The ONLY segment they compete in is the small crossover segment, and the midsize crossover segment, but only there because the RX is so cheap. Nowhere else are they even a factor. The ES doesnt compete against anything but cars that have been discontinued...and those cars weren't tier 1 luxury cars.
Most dealers are still getting rid of 2019 or even 2018 LC inventory, so you're right you arent likely to see a 2020 LC like yours because dealers don't want them on the lot because they can't move the LC inventory left over from last year.
01-08-20, 08:08 PM
#220
Lexus Test Driver
Originally Posted by Frog98
Exclusivity my friend. I have a performance package LC 500 Nightfall Mica with toasted caramel interior. Tell me how many other 2020 LC 500's you find for sale like that You don't have to be like everyone else. I'm not the only one who has chose a LC over a 911. When you buy and LC...you get a LC! On Hagerty's list of future collectibles.
You don't have to be like everyone else. I'm not the only one who has chose a LC over a 911. When you buy and LC...you get a LC! On Hagerty's list of future collectibles.
01-08-20, 08:14 PM
#221
Lexus Fanatic
What I want to see from Lexus:
1. A new TTV8, that needs to go in the LS and the LC. LS needs to be softened, not much they can do about the form factor since its such a new model. LC is great, just needs new power.
2. An all new GS model, or a combination of the GS and IS reinvented as a 4 door coupe. TTV6.
3. 2 serious new RWD crossovers based on the GA-L Platform, both midsized and fullsized 3 row. TTV6 with TTV8 optional at least in the 3 row, true competitors for the GLE/GLS and X5/X7/Range Rover
4. Revamped infotainment system that is class leading
Those 4 items and Lexus is an entirely new brand than what it is right now, and they'll get my $90-100,000 for one of those cars. Lexus can achieve this pretty quickly if they want to.
1. A new TTV8, that needs to go in the LS and the LC. LS needs to be softened, not much they can do about the form factor since its such a new model. LC is great, just needs new power.
2. An all new GS model, or a combination of the GS and IS reinvented as a 4 door coupe. TTV6.
3. 2 serious new RWD crossovers based on the GA-L Platform, both midsized and fullsized 3 row. TTV6 with TTV8 optional at least in the 3 row, true competitors for the GLE/GLS and X5/X7/Range Rover
4. Revamped infotainment system that is class leading
Those 4 items and Lexus is an entirely new brand than what it is right now, and they'll get my $90-100,000 for one of those cars. Lexus can achieve this pretty quickly if they want to.
01-08-20, 08:16 PM
#222
Good for you, but this is an objective discussion about Lexus as a brand and how they are competing with and performing relative to their competition. The bottom line is they aren't...they are a total non factor in the luxury world anywhere in price above the RX. This is the company that turned the germans on their heads 30 years ago and they aren't even a blip on the radar of the luxury car world today. Thats incredibly sad.
The ONLY segment they compete in is the small crossover segment, and the midsize crossover segment, but only there because the RX is so cheap. Nowhere else are they even a factor. The ES doesnt compete against anything but cars that have been discontinued...and those cars weren't tier 1 luxury cars.
Most dealers are still getting rid of 2019 or even 2018 LC inventory, so you're right you arent likely to see a 2020 LC like yours because dealers don't want them on the lot because they can't move the LC inventory left over from last year.
The ONLY segment they compete in is the small crossover segment, and the midsize crossover segment, but only there because the RX is so cheap. Nowhere else are they even a factor. The ES doesnt compete against anything but cars that have been discontinued...and those cars weren't tier 1 luxury cars.
Most dealers are still getting rid of 2019 or even 2018 LC inventory, so you're right you arent likely to see a 2020 LC like yours because dealers don't want them on the lot because they can't move the LC inventory left over from last year.
01-08-20, 08:21 PM
#223
The 911 is a better track car. The LC is a better daily driver and far more comfortable being a true Grand Tourer. Yes, the LC is more a GT car and competes with the 8 series or Aston. But when I was shopping I was considering a 992 or LC. The LC and 992 both have good reliability and service.
01-08-20, 08:23 PM
#224
Lexus Fanatic
I don’t agree that BMW is not competing with Mercedes. I think if you look at the product and drive the product it’s pretty clear BMW and MB are competing well, Audi also to a somewhat lesser extent.
Im not buying any vehicle right now, i still enjoy the one i have. At least a year maybe even 2. Unless Lexus changes what they offer over the next year or two you’re going to see me in a German car.
Im not buying any vehicle right now, i still enjoy the one i have. At least a year maybe even 2. Unless Lexus changes what they offer over the next year or two you’re going to see me in a German car.
01-08-20, 08:30 PM
#225
I don’t agree that BMW is not competing with Mercedes. I think if you look at the product and drive the product it’s pretty clear BMW and MB are competing well, Audi also to a somewhat lesser extent.
Im not buying any vehicle right now, i still enjoy the one i have. At least a year maybe even 2. Unless Lexus changes what they offer over the next year or two you’re going to see me in a German car.
Im not buying any vehicle right now, i still enjoy the one i have. At least a year maybe even 2. Unless Lexus changes what they offer over the next year or two you’re going to see me in a German car.
Last edited by Frog98; 01-08-20 at 08:39 PM.