Originally Posted by spwolf

you have to understand that many people here do not want Lexus anymore, they are here for community.

Originally Posted by LexsCTJill

Perhaps you would feel different if you actually purchased the vehicle and not leased it. The value in buying Lexus IS in the long term, whether real or perceived. German cars do not carry the long term value the same way a Lexus does. I have always said that leasing a Toyota or a Lexus is a bit of a waste because all the value is in long-term ownership. If I were the leasing type, a Lexus or Toyota would last vehicle I would get.

Originally Posted by Reggie1

Five time Lexus buyer here, the last two being LXs. We have been shopping to replace current LX, and have just about settled on leaving the Lexus brand for a Porsche Cayenne. Driving the 2020 versions of each show how poorly the LX has aged.

Originally Posted by Frog98

Incapable, no. Toyota is certainly capable of making some of the best race car engines. Look at the TS050 race cars and RCF GT3. Will a Lexus twin turbo higher horsepower more boosted engine be as reliable? Will they require more maintenance? Good question. Read about the reliability of some of the German twin turbo high horsepower V8's. I wouldn't own one long term. It sounds like Lexus is testing a higher horsepower twin turbo smaller block V8 or a twin turbo higher booster V6, so I guess we will see. I just read they were spotted testing a V8 Supra.

Originally Posted by spwolf

you have to understand that many people here do not want Lexus anymore, they are here for community.

Originally Posted by SW17LS

I might, but again I didn't feel this way leasing Lexus vehicles 10 years ago, or 15 years ago, or 20 years ago. Their cars were more comparable to their competition then, even better in some segments. That's not the case now..

Originally Posted by LexsCTJill

Perhaps you would feel different if you actually purchased the vehicle and not leased it. The value in buying Lexus IS in the long term, whether real or perceived. German cars do not carry the long term value the same way a Lexus does. I have always said that leasing a Toyota or a Lexus is a bit of a waste because all the value is in long-term ownership. If I were the leasing type, a Lexus or Toyota would last vehicle I would get. There are all kinds of cars I’d like to try, but not out of warranty.

Originally Posted by SW17LS

Reliability is certainly not a curse word, but it’s not “everything” and the difference is over stated. I know many people who drive luxury cars, and none of my friends with BMWs or Mercedes or Audi’s have their cars in the shop more than I do. And my LS460 was in the shop for 4 days last month with a $4k+ warranty repair which is a very common issue with that vehicle, so yes Lexus products DO have issues that require repair...it’s not unheard of.

What frustrates me is this idea that “reliability” should trump features, technology and performance in an expensive luxury car. I just don’t agree, if I didn’t care about how a car feels, drives, performs, and looks i wouldn’t be driving a $90,000+ car. If all I cared about was reliability and leather seats and a luxury image I would spend $50k on an ES. When I drive competing models at price points over $60k they’re just better. They drive better, look better, have much better technology and performance. Might they be a little less reliable? Sure. Might I have to drive a loaner car for a couple days a year I wouldn’t have to with a Lexus? Sure. Is that the end of the world for the difference in what those cars offer in driving enjoyment for my money? I don’t think so.

Lexus CAN build cars that do compete and are still reliable. I would really like them to but they don’t seem interested in doing that. Yes, that frustrates me. I simply will not buy a transverse FWD rebadged Toyota simply because it’s reliable. I was proper RWD platforms, I want modern power trains, I want competitive modern features and infotainment also. Why are those dirty words and why am I wrong for wanting those things and reliability?

Originally Posted by LexsCTJill

As people grow up, people tend to lose their fondness or admiration for something compared to when they were younger (things are no longer new to people). Mercedes and BMW have had V12s and turbos for a really long time. Amg and M forever They have also had more experimental vehicles as well. So all of sudden now 20 years later, lack of new engines and very expensive models is now all of a problem? Older engines is nothing really new. How long did Lexus use the UZ architecture for the LS (17 model years) LX used UZ for 10 years. Power ratings for Lexus models have always been a little behind historically, 471 for the LC is no different than when my Lexus LX470 was just 235 while Cadillac at the time was 285 if I remember.

Originally Posted by bitkahuna

great post! And i think this is also why it's hard for lexus to win a vaguely interesting 'sales race' with bmw and mercedes because if lexus average ownership is way longer, then short of new models being introduced and loads of conquest sales, they're always going to lose.

Originally Posted by Frog98

You seem to lease a lot of cars that need repair. Nothing wrong with my LC. It’s mine, not the finance companies. It seems to bother some around here if posters like their Lexus now. That’s kind of sad. You use the “I have a friend excuse a lot” what does any research show? JD Power, consumer reports, cars.com, edmunds etc. I remember, you said you don’t care. I’m going to go enjoy my LC now and exit this thread Enjoy your complaining. That sounds like a fun life.

Originally Posted by SW17LS

My admiration for the brand hasn't changed, what has changed is the brand itself. Lexus has changed a TON in the last 5-7 years, and I don't like the feel of the new Lexus like I did the old Lexus. I'm hardly alone in that opinion either. 20 years ago Lexus had new engines, and they did not have the same power gaps that they have today, I've illustrated that to you before.

I'm not somebody that likes change. I would love to walk in and buy the same car just newer and improved over and over again.



The only company that has only touchscreens is Audi, MB and BMW have touchscreens and a hand control. In any event, I'd go back to a touchscreen, it doesn't really bother me either way.



The question is do Lexus owners really keep their cars longer? Always seem to be planty of CPO cars on Lexus lots.



You keep trying to make this personal and its not personal. You enjoy your Lexus cars and thats great, I have repeatedly told you how much I like your LC. I really enjoy my LS460L. I can have criticisms of Lexus' direction without disliking my own vehicle or every vehicle they make. I'm not "complaining". I post a ton on CL and the vast majority of what I post is not critical at all.

If you don't want to hear objective discussions about Lexus as a brand and its competitors I would suggest you stick to the model specific forums and stay away from Car Chat.

Originally Posted by Frog98

How do you know about the competitors? You haven’t owned any! You have no experience with them lol.

Originally Posted by Frog98

It seems to bother some around here if posters like their Lexus now. That’s kind of sad.

Originally Posted by SW17LS

Ive driven them all, many of them extensively. I don’t have any ownership experience but that’s not what I’m talking about. I’m able to look at two vehicles and form opinions about their attributes without owning them both.

Instead of focusing on trying to discredit me why don’t you share how your opinion differs and why.

Originally Posted by Frog98

It would be a waste of my time again. I already have. You will only disagree. You apparently know it all having never owned a Lexus competitor and not caring what any professional research shows. Test driving is nothing like owning a car.