Lexus Confronts Midlife Crisis With Aging SUVs Losing to Rivals
01-09-20, 10:04 AM
#256
not sure who you're referring to, but i for one am thrilled if anyone is happy with their vehicle, whatever it is, but particularly lexus as this is after all, ClubLexus!
and you own my favorite Lexus right now (hint, not the RX you have LOL) - did you see my other post on your sig?
he really isn't complaining, not speaking for him, but like some others, he seems to be disappointed lexus is moving so slowly in what has become the hottest segment of the luxury market (3 row crossovers!) and fine car though it is, the market appears to have spoken about the new LS. and of course lexus has abandoned the GS it seems, a former JEWEL of their line-up they marketed beautifully and proudly (deservedly). now, not so much. clublexus was built on the sedans - gs, is, ls, es and then of course, rx, lx, etc. all but the ls and es are ancient now. that's kind of sad. i personally had a GS and an RX - loved them both. but that was then. i hope to be back. it's definitely possible.
and you own my favorite Lexus right now (hint, not the RX you have LOL) - did you see my other post on your sig?
he really isn't complaining, not speaking for him, but like some others, he seems to be disappointed lexus is moving so slowly in what has become the hottest segment of the luxury market (3 row crossovers!) and fine car though it is, the market appears to have spoken about the new LS. and of course lexus has abandoned the GS it seems, a former JEWEL of their line-up they marketed beautifully and proudly (deservedly). now, not so much. clublexus was built on the sedans - gs, is, ls, es and then of course, rx, lx, etc. all but the ls and es are ancient now. that's kind of sad. i personally had a GS and an RX - loved them both. but that was then. i hope to be back. it's definitely possible.
01-09-20, 10:05 AM
#257
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
My admiration for the brand hasn't changed, what has changed is the brand itself. Lexus has changed a TON in the last 5-7 years, and I don't like the feel of the new Lexus like I did the old Lexus. I'm hardly alone in that opinion either. 20 years ago Lexus had new engines, and they did not have the same power gaps that they have today, I've illustrated that to you before.
I'm not somebody that likes change. I would love to walk in and buy the same car just newer and improved over and over again.
,
I'm not somebody that likes change. I would love to walk in and buy the same car just newer and improved over and over again.
,
01-09-20, 10:36 AM
#258
Lexus Champion
Reliability is certainly not a curse word, but it’s not “everything” and the difference is over stated. I know many people who drive luxury cars, and none of my friends with BMWs or Mercedes or Audi’s have their cars in the shop more than I do. And my LS460 was in the shop for 4 days last month with a $4k+ warranty repair which is a very common issue with that vehicle, so yes Lexus products DO have issues that require repair...it’s not unheard of.
What frustrates me is this idea that “reliability” should trump features, technology and performance in an expensive luxury car. I just don’t agree, if I didn’t care about how a car feels, drives, performs, and looks i wouldn’t be driving a $90,000+ car. If all I cared about was reliability and leather seats and a luxury image I would spend $50k on an ES. When I drive competing models at price points over $60k they’re just better. They drive better, look better, have much better technology and performance. Might they be a little less reliable? Sure. Might I have to drive a loaner car for a couple days a year I wouldn’t have to with a Lexus? Sure. Is that the end of the world for the difference in what those cars offer in driving enjoyment for my money? I don’t think so.
Lexus CAN build cars that do compete and are still reliable. I would really like them to but they don’t seem interested in doing that. Yes, that frustrates me. I simply will not buy a transverse FWD rebadged Toyota simply because it’s reliable. I was proper RWD platforms, I want modern power trains, I want competitive modern features and infotainment also. Why are those dirty words and why am I wrong for wanting those things and reliability?
What frustrates me is this idea that “reliability” should trump features, technology and performance in an expensive luxury car. I just don’t agree, if I didn’t care about how a car feels, drives, performs, and looks i wouldn’t be driving a $90,000+ car. If all I cared about was reliability and leather seats and a luxury image I would spend $50k on an ES. When I drive competing models at price points over $60k they’re just better. They drive better, look better, have much better technology and performance. Might they be a little less reliable? Sure. Might I have to drive a loaner car for a couple days a year I wouldn’t have to with a Lexus? Sure. Is that the end of the world for the difference in what those cars offer in driving enjoyment for my money? I don’t think so.
Lexus CAN build cars that do compete and are still reliable. I would really like them to but they don’t seem interested in doing that. Yes, that frustrates me. I simply will not buy a transverse FWD rebadged Toyota simply because it’s reliable. I was proper RWD platforms, I want modern power trains, I want competitive modern features and infotainment also. Why are those dirty words and why am I wrong for wanting those things and reliability?
I just can't fathom these people plunking down $100k for a BMW and it being in the shop, then just a nightmare after warranty expires. Wasn't Och talking about his daughter's 7 year old X5 that needed $12,000 in repairs(dealer paid, but still)? $12k in work for a 7 year old vehicle? That's just ridiculous.
01-09-20, 10:55 AM
#259
Consumers are more tech oriented than they were 15-20 years ago. Tech changes rapidly. In turn car manufacturers need to make an honest effort to keep up.
No doubt if your sole purpose of an auto purchase is reliability, then buy Toyota/ Lexus. If you desire competitiveness and modern look/ feel then the Toyota/ Lexus large SUVs (or Tundra) probably do not meet your needs. I think they could go substantially better sales with complete redesigns of these large rigs. I would not consider any of the Tundra, Sequoia, Land Cruiser, 4Runner, GX or LX as they simply feel dated. This is regardless of purchase or lease. We are in 2020 and the Tundra is delayed? What have they been doing since 2008 and before (when designed). Crazy, but Toyota seems content to sell what they can and lose market share to other manufacturers. I am talking about the large rigs and not smaller SUVs and crossovers as they are very competitive in that market. I am content and have come to peace to buy/ lease from another brand when I am ready for something new. That is unless Toyota/ Lexus puts out a large SUV that is truly desirable and competitive. Reliability alone won’t get my next dollar.
No doubt if your sole purpose of an auto purchase is reliability, then buy Toyota/ Lexus. If you desire competitiveness and modern look/ feel then the Toyota/ Lexus large SUVs (or Tundra) probably do not meet your needs. I think they could go substantially better sales with complete redesigns of these large rigs. I would not consider any of the Tundra, Sequoia, Land Cruiser, 4Runner, GX or LX as they simply feel dated. This is regardless of purchase or lease. We are in 2020 and the Tundra is delayed? What have they been doing since 2008 and before (when designed). Crazy, but Toyota seems content to sell what they can and lose market share to other manufacturers. I am talking about the large rigs and not smaller SUVs and crossovers as they are very competitive in that market. I am content and have come to peace to buy/ lease from another brand when I am ready for something new. That is unless Toyota/ Lexus puts out a large SUV that is truly desirable and competitive. Reliability alone won’t get my next dollar.
01-09-20, 11:03 AM
#260
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
01-09-20, 11:26 AM
#262
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
01-09-20, 11:30 AM
#264
i disagree! it hasn't changed ENOUGH in the last 5-7 years but where it has changed the most, adding NX, LC and UX were good moves to be sure, but at the expense of utterly neglecting most of their main models IS, RX, GX, LX. new LS we've discussed, and new ES was a GREAT move - bullseye.
Last edited by Frog98; 01-09-20 at 11:34 AM.
01-09-20, 11:36 AM
#265
Lexus Fanatic
I got bored and wanted new things from a Lexus also and did switch to Porsche and BMW. I’m back to Lexus. Sure I’d like a Lexus crossover aimed at the GLS and x7. I want Lexus to make improvements, but just because the Germans offer a few more hp and some new tech doesn’t mean you will be completely happy to switch. Many things come into play...comfort, reliability, service, performance, tech, style. I really like Genesis! I’d like to see some more upscale dealers for them.
That doesn't matter because you lease. I assume you have never had a car out of warranty. Part of the appeal of Lexus is how reliable they are. Buy one (new or well cared for used) and just forget it, enjoy the drive. They don't break.
I just can't fathom these people plunking down $100k for a BMW and it being in the shop, then just a nightmare after warranty expires. Wasn't Och talking about his daughter's 7 year old X5 that needed $12,000 in repairs(dealer paid, but still)? $12k in work for a 7 year old vehicle? That's just ridiculous.
I just can't fathom these people plunking down $100k for a BMW and it being in the shop, then just a nightmare after warranty expires. Wasn't Och talking about his daughter's 7 year old X5 that needed $12,000 in repairs(dealer paid, but still)? $12k in work for a 7 year old vehicle? That's just ridiculous.
i disagree! it hasn't changed ENOUGH in the last 5-7 years but where it has changed the most, adding NX, LC and UX were good moves to be sure, but at the expense of utterly neglecting most of their main models IS, RX, GX, LX. new LS we've discussed, and new ES was a GREAT move - bullseye.
01-09-20, 01:17 PM
#267
I just can't fathom these people plunking down $100k for a BMW and it being in the shop, then just a nightmare after warranty expires. Wasn't Och talking about his daughter's 7 year old X5 that needed $12,000 in repairs(dealer paid, but still)? $12k in work for a 7 year old vehicle? That's just ridiculous.
What I find is a lot of people with these old so called "reliable" cars drive these clunkers with a bunch of issues - suspension clunking, malfunction lights that make the cluster look like a christmas tree, burning oil, bunch of stuff not working, bunch of little leaks, and so on. And that's not to even mention the generally worn out interior, faded paint, oxidized headlights, hopelessly outdated infotainment, etc. And they are constantly fixing one thing or another. Life is too short to deal with such misery.
01-09-20, 02:05 PM
#268
Lexus Champion
What I find is a lot of people with these old so called "reliable" cars drive these clunkers with a bunch of issues - suspension clunking, malfunction lights that make the cluster look like a christmas tree, burning oil, bunch of stuff not working, bunch of little leaks, and so on. And that's not to even mention the generally worn out interior, faded paint, oxidized headlights, hopelessly outdated infotainment, etc. And they are constantly fixing one thing or another. Life is too short to deal with such misery.
01-09-20, 02:08 PM
#269
While I'm sure your LS is special, all the others that I see on the roads (and not many of them left where I am) are all sad looking clunkers on their last leg. And while that V8 was good back in the late 90ies, if you test it now you'll find that it's lost a good chunk of its power.
01-09-20, 02:16 PM
#270
Lexus Champion
While I'm sure your LS is special, all the others that I see on the roads (and not many of them left where I am) are all sad looking clunkers on their last leg. And while that V8 was good back in the late 90ies, if you test it now you'll find that it's lost a good chunk of its power.
That V8 hasn't lost anything. It's plenty powerful, I barely ever go above 2200RPM. Car has impressive acceleration. I noticed it yesterday when I was on the interstate....I don't drive fast at all anymore but I had to make a quick move. I was over 100 before I knew it, and didn't mean to get going that fast. Didn't even floor it. I almost forgot the realllly long highway legs it has.
I would take the 4.3 I have over any LS motor that's ever existed, including the TTV6 that's way more powerful.