Lexus Confronts Midlife Crisis With Aging SUVs Losing to Rivals
01-11-20, 03:49 PM
#361
Lexus Fanatic
Bottom line is that discount on a leftover car is not anything unusual for the LS or that segment in general.
01-11-20, 03:59 PM
#362
Super Moderator
Was perusing Quora. Lots of discussion about Lexus vs Mercedes. Most if not all say, if they were using their own money (and responsible for the upkeep) and not financing or leasing, they would buy a Lexus over a German car. Would that be agreeable on here? Is there anyone on here who consistently buys German cars for cash? There are also some that claim that German cars outside of North America are not always such money pits.
With the exception of the crappy emissions system on my diesel (which has cost a pretty penny), all have been super-reliable.
01-11-20, 04:04 PM
#363
Lexus Fanatic
01-11-20, 04:15 PM
#365
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
I financed both my previous and current 3-series. I paid both off early, so I suppose that technically isn't paying cash, but since I've kept both cars well beyond the loan I'm not sure why that should be a distinction--it's still my money in the end. The Q7 we financed part of for about 6 weeks, because Audi paid us $1200 to do so. But we would have just written a check to the dealer for the full amount otherwise, so I assume that counts.
With the exception of the crappy emissions system on my diesel (which has cost a pretty penny), all have been super-reliable.
With the exception of the crappy emissions system on my diesel (which has cost a pretty penny), all have been super-reliable.
01-11-20, 05:04 PM
#366
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
For the Canadian side, it was $25,000 cash only. If you used Lexus financial, you did not receive the discount nor was it applied to the lease if using Lexus financial. Today, you can buy a Tundra for $4000 cash off, but if you finance via Toyota or Lexus, there is no discount. Lexus has no cash deals right now.
01-11-20, 05:06 PM
#367
Lexus Fanatic
You would have to prove that to me that it was “cash only” and they would not finance it. I’ve never seen any such thing nor does it make any sense.
You do see rebates where you can have a discounted rate OR a rebate but not both.
They make money on financing, so why would they offer a discount only if you don’t finance and they make less money?
In any event, you can always finance it with an outside bank.
You do see rebates where you can have a discounted rate OR a rebate but not both.
They make money on financing, so why would they offer a discount only if you don’t finance and they make less money?
In any event, you can always finance it with an outside bank.
01-11-20, 05:32 PM
#368
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
You would have to prove that to me that it was “cash only” and they would not finance it. I’ve never seen any such thing nor does it make any sense.
You do see rebates where you can have a discounted rate OR a rebate but not both.
They make money on financing, so why would they offer a discount only if you don’t finance and they make less money?
In any event, you can always finance it with an outside bank.
You do see rebates where you can have a discounted rate OR a rebate but not both.
They make money on financing, so why would they offer a discount only if you don’t finance and they make less money?
In any event, you can always finance it with an outside bank.
01-11-20, 05:36 PM
#369
Lexus Fanatic
You can’t finance with Toyota financial, but the dealership can finance the car, they just have to use another bank.
01-11-20, 05:37 PM
#370
Super Moderator
No, the problem is that combining Direct Injection with EGR is stupid in general, and colossally stupid for a diesel. But the EPA insists that we do it, because it marginally reduces emissions for the three minutes that the engine is running. Doesn't matter to them that it permanently reduces fuel economy and causes damage that costs thousands to fix, that's your problem.
SCR mixer and DEF tank were replaced under a recall. My first CBU cleaning and replacement of two injectors--one that failed due to CBU, and one that broke when they removed it to do the cleaning--were covered under extended warranty.
The SCR Catalyst failed at about 85k miles. I should have removed it, but had it replaced because I only had about 80 miles until the car bricked itself and I didn't have time to deal with it. That ran me $2400 at the dealer. First they replaced some NOx sensors that were covered under a service bulletin, before determining that the cat was bad.
Then I was at the point where CBU was becoming a problem again. This is needed about every 40-50k miles on cars with functioning EGR, and NEVER on cars without it. The cleaning, plus an oil change (required due to the chemicals used in the cleaning) and replacement of a fuel rail pressure sensor that wasn't passing its tests (this was probably my fault due to a piggyback tune I had been running for 8 years) cost $1900 at an indy.
Now that my engine was clean, I was totally done with EGR. It cost me nothing to remove the EGR valve and cooler, but cost $150 for the race pipe to replace the valve in the intake and caps to block off the coolant lines going to the cooler. That would have resulted in a CEL, so I sent the ECU out for a stage 1 tune and removal of the EGR software. That cost $700, though it would have cost the same without the EGR removal, and I paid an extra $50 to have them add launch control. Because racecar.
Finally, I had two more injectors that were damaged by the CBU and needed to be replaced. Those were $130 each after the core, plus $400 labor to replace and reset adaptations.
All told, I think that saga cost around $5700. But I'm convinced that it should be pretty much bulletproof from here on out. If I do ever have an issue with the SCR and/or DPF, I'll just remove them and straight-pipe back, then have the ECU re-tuned (free) to not expect them. But in general, a fully deleted M57 diesel will run for half a million miles or more without any major repairs. Removing EGR is approximately 80% of that.
Aside from the emissions nonsense, literally the only thing that's gone wrong in 9 years is a glow plug heater module that cost around $200 to replace. Well, and I broke some aftermarket wheels on Chicago's crappy roads. But you can't really blame BMW for that.
01-11-20, 05:43 PM
#371
Super Moderator
When we were shopping and ultimately wound up with the Q7, I was open to leasing, but once we settled on the Audi that was a definite no-go. Audi leases are terrible. It would have been only slightly cheaper than buying one, setting it on fire, and then buying another one.
01-11-20, 05:45 PM
#372
Lexus Champion
Of course I did. It has a handy reminder that it only has X miles until the engine won't start, unless you refill the tank (which only costs about $11 and takes about 10 minutes), starting at 1,000 miles remaining. I have to refill it about every 10 months.
No, the problem is that combining Direct Injection with EGR is stupid in general, and colossally stupid for a diesel. But the EPA insists that we do it, because it marginally reduces emissions for the three minutes that the engine is running. Doesn't matter to them that it permanently reduces fuel economy and causes damage that costs thousands to fix, that's your problem.
SCR mixer and DEF tank were replaced under a recall. My first CBU cleaning and replacement of two injectors--one that failed due to CBU, and one that broke when they removed it to do the cleaning--were covered under extended warranty.
The SCR Catalyst failed at about 85k miles. I should have removed it, but had it replaced because I only had about 80 miles until the car bricked itself and I didn't have time to deal with it. That ran me $2400 at the dealer. First they replaced some NOx sensors that were covered under a service bulletin, before determining that the cat was bad.
Then I was at the point where CBU was becoming a problem again. This is needed about every 40-50k miles on cars with functioning EGR, and NEVER on cars without it. The cleaning, plus an oil change (required due to the chemicals used in the cleaning) and replacement of a fuel rail pressure sensor that wasn't passing its tests (this was probably my fault due to a piggyback tune I had been running for 8 years) cost $1900 at an indy.
Now that my engine was clean, I was totally done with EGR. It cost me nothing to remove the EGR valve and cooler, but cost $150 for the race pipe to replace the valve in the intake and caps to block off the coolant lines going to the cooler. That would have resulted in a CEL, so I sent the ECU out for a stage 1 tune and removal of the EGR software. That cost $700, though it would have cost the same without the EGR removal, and I paid an extra $50 to have them add launch control. Because racecar.
Finally, I had two more injectors that were damaged by the CBU and needed to be replaced. Those were $130 each after the core, plus $400 labor to replace and reset adaptations.
All told, I think that saga cost around $5700. But I'm convinced that it should be pretty much bulletproof from here on out. If I do ever have an issue with the SCR and/or DPF, I'll just remove them and straight-pipe back, then have the ECU re-tuned (free) to not expect them. But in general, a fully deleted M57 diesel will run for half a million miles or more without any major repairs. Removing EGR is approximately 80% of that.
Aside from the emissions nonsense, literally the only thing that's gone wrong in 9 years is a glow plug heater module that cost around $200 to replace. Well, and I broke some aftermarket wheels on Chicago's crappy roads. But you can't really blame BMW for that.
No, the problem is that combining Direct Injection with EGR is stupid in general, and colossally stupid for a diesel. But the EPA insists that we do it, because it marginally reduces emissions for the three minutes that the engine is running. Doesn't matter to them that it permanently reduces fuel economy and causes damage that costs thousands to fix, that's your problem.
SCR mixer and DEF tank were replaced under a recall. My first CBU cleaning and replacement of two injectors--one that failed due to CBU, and one that broke when they removed it to do the cleaning--were covered under extended warranty.
The SCR Catalyst failed at about 85k miles. I should have removed it, but had it replaced because I only had about 80 miles until the car bricked itself and I didn't have time to deal with it. That ran me $2400 at the dealer. First they replaced some NOx sensors that were covered under a service bulletin, before determining that the cat was bad.
Then I was at the point where CBU was becoming a problem again. This is needed about every 40-50k miles on cars with functioning EGR, and NEVER on cars without it. The cleaning, plus an oil change (required due to the chemicals used in the cleaning) and replacement of a fuel rail pressure sensor that wasn't passing its tests (this was probably my fault due to a piggyback tune I had been running for 8 years) cost $1900 at an indy.
Now that my engine was clean, I was totally done with EGR. It cost me nothing to remove the EGR valve and cooler, but cost $150 for the race pipe to replace the valve in the intake and caps to block off the coolant lines going to the cooler. That would have resulted in a CEL, so I sent the ECU out for a stage 1 tune and removal of the EGR software. That cost $700, though it would have cost the same without the EGR removal, and I paid an extra $50 to have them add launch control. Because racecar.
Finally, I had two more injectors that were damaged by the CBU and needed to be replaced. Those were $130 each after the core, plus $400 labor to replace and reset adaptations.
All told, I think that saga cost around $5700. But I'm convinced that it should be pretty much bulletproof from here on out. If I do ever have an issue with the SCR and/or DPF, I'll just remove them and straight-pipe back, then have the ECU re-tuned (free) to not expect them. But in general, a fully deleted M57 diesel will run for half a million miles or more without any major repairs. Removing EGR is approximately 80% of that.
Aside from the emissions nonsense, literally the only thing that's gone wrong in 9 years is a glow plug heater module that cost around $200 to replace. Well, and I broke some aftermarket wheels on Chicago's crappy roads. But you can't really blame BMW for that.
01-11-20, 05:47 PM
#373
For which one? My first 3-series I bought during a time when I was very anti-leasing in general, and the current one was a demo--I got $16k off of sticker ($38k vs. $54k) buying a never-titled car with 9k miles on it. I don't think a lease would have made sense--certainly not now that I've had it for almost 9 years.
When we were shopping and ultimately wound up with the Q7, I was open to leasing, but once we settled on the Audi that was a definite no-go. Audi leases are terrible. It would have been only slightly cheaper than buying one, setting it on fire, and then buying another one.
When we were shopping and ultimately wound up with the Q7, I was open to leasing, but once we settled on the Audi that was a definite no-go. Audi leases are terrible. It would have been only slightly cheaper than buying one, setting it on fire, and then buying another one.
01-11-20, 05:52 PM
#374
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
That is a pretty savvy deal, how many miles now?. I was under the impression the car was bought new.
01-11-20, 06:02 PM
#375
Super Moderator
We absolutely love it. It's comfortable, quiet, rides great and handles well and is more fun to drive than one would expect of a 5,000 lb people hauler. We had no interest in a 3-row, but all of us are tall and the second row is simply better than in 2-row CUVs like the Q5. The supercharged V6 is smooth as silk, plenty powerful and returning a hair shy of 20mpg in mixed driving. Current model is a turbo V6, which is also well-regarded, with the caveat of throttle lag that you note. I tried the Q8 at the auto show last year, but it has significantly less headroom than the Q7, and wouldn't work for us. Looks sweet though.