Battle betwen generations Lexus LS
"you know what i'm saying
03-08-20, 12:53 PM
#48
Lexus Fanatic
There are more entries now in the North American full size luxury sedan/car segment...Tesla S is the clear leader, Porsche Panamera all fighting for the same dollar..they did not exist at that time...but it is also cross-over market....I think you are unsure how to define prestige....the lower sales figures for the LS does not mean it is less prestigious...things are just different now.
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 03-08-20 at 12:59 PM.
03-08-20, 01:44 PM
#49
Lexus Fanatic
I’ve owned 4 of these new, I think I have a pretty good handle on how they’re perceived by the public. My point was, it if were “more prestigious than any LS before it” as you said, it would sell better than it does relative to its peers.
No denying the car is prestigious, it’s just not anymore so than the LS has ever been.
No denying the car is prestigious, it’s just not anymore so than the LS has ever been.
03-08-20, 01:56 PM
#52
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
even cars like the s-class have dropped by half since 2014. but 2019 sales were a bit better than 2009 (right after the huge crash). stats here: https://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sale...-benz-s-class/
I think you are unsure how to define prestige....the lower sales figures for the LS does not mean it is less prestigious...things are just different now.
03-08-20, 01:59 PM
#53
Lexus Fanatic
Far more rare than it ever used to be. The styling means something more than it ever did. The performance is better. Made for 75 world markets. When you see the LS500, you no longer think value or Toyota, you see high-end Japanese luxury.
03-08-20, 02:05 PM
#54
Lexus Fanatic
As for styling, that’s subjective. I agree the car is good looking but to me it doesn’t look like a flagship car any longer. Performance is “better” but no V8 which is a huge negative in this class.
It doesn’t look like or feel like a peer to others in the segment to me anymore, where the previous generations always did.
It also consistently gets torn up in reviews.
all of these things don’t equal more prestige.
03-08-20, 02:07 PM
#55
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
you're saying the LS500 is more prestigious because it's rarer?
only if the function is great too.
well first i never see them. 
i've only seen one in person. and it's not like my town is poor. tons of mercedes, range rovers, bmws, cadillacs, etc.
second, we may see high-end japanese luxury since it's the ONLY high-end japanese luxury sedan. it's certainly not 'value' because an s-class isn't much more, as we've discussed in the other thread and often offers better deals/rates.
The styling means something more than it ever did.
When you see the LS500, you no longer think value or Toyota, you see high-end Japanese luxury.
i've only seen one in person. and it's not like my town is poor. tons of mercedes, range rovers, bmws, cadillacs, etc.second, we may see high-end japanese luxury since it's the ONLY high-end japanese luxury sedan. it's certainly not 'value' because an s-class isn't much more, as we've discussed in the other thread and often offers better deals/rates.
03-08-20, 02:15 PM
#57
Lexus Fanatic
That makes zero sense lol. You’re the one who made the statement not either of us.
03-08-20, 02:59 PM
#58
Poor selling 5LS has two issues:
(1) There is the arguable issue of 5LS rear 3/4 view styling, with the interior a trifle bland compared to S Class.
(2) Then there is the issue of being a sporting luxury intermediate between pure luxury sedans like S Class & 7 Series vs pure sports sedans like a Porsche Panamera/Maserati Quattroporte/Benz AMG GT4/BMW 8 Series - 4 Door Gran Coupes.
Because a sporting luxury intermediate lacks the spaciousness, ride and refinement of the genuine full size luxury sedan bodystyle, it is difficult for 5LS to sell in large volumes unlike the S Class or previous generations of Lexus LS's.
(1) There is the arguable issue of 5LS rear 3/4 view styling, with the interior a trifle bland compared to S Class.
(2) Then there is the issue of being a sporting luxury intermediate between pure luxury sedans like S Class & 7 Series vs pure sports sedans like a Porsche Panamera/Maserati Quattroporte/Benz AMG GT4/BMW 8 Series - 4 Door Gran Coupes.
Because a sporting luxury intermediate lacks the spaciousness, ride and refinement of the genuine full size luxury sedan bodystyle, it is difficult for 5LS to sell in large volumes unlike the S Class or previous generations of Lexus LS's.
03-08-20, 03:00 PM
#59
Racer
Here in my area, you regularly see all sorts of high-end luxury cars. That said, I hardly ever see the new LS. It's a very rare sight. But so to is the 7-Series & A8, though it's hard to go a day without seeing at least a few S-Classes. I think in this segment, the S-Class is just the buyers' (the full-size sedan buyers who are left) default choice because it has the long-standing reputation for being the ultimate status/success symbol that the others don't quite carry. I've seen more Maybach S-Classes than I've seen LS/7/A8/etc.
That said, I do agree with @LexsCTJill that the new LS is more prestigious than the LS' that came before it* and a large part is due to the design but also the sheer size and proportions. In person, the few times I've seen the 5LS driving by, it's hard to miss, especially at night with those stunning headlights. But what you notice compared to all the cars around it is how very long, very sleek, & very wide it is. It has presence that the previous generation cars didn't quite have as they were more subdued and blended in a bit more, but I don't think they were trying to stand out as much as the current car is trying to.
*But to clarify this point, I think if you had each generation of LS side-by-side in front of a group of people who knew nothing about cars and had no idea what they were looking at, they'd agree that each generation got nicer/more luxurious/etc. but the biggest jump would be the 4LS to 5LS. Relatively speaking, just looking at what is in front of you but ignoring what it "is," the 5LS is bolder, flashier, more exciting, more luxurious, expensive looking, etc.
However, I do not think the name "Lexus LS" carries any more weight or prestige than it once did and I don't think the 5LS did anything to change that.
I think in this segment, it's more about what "is" rather than the actual car itself. In this segment, the S-Class just "is" the leader. Mercedes could almost do whatever they wanted with the next-gen car and people would still flock to it because it "is" an S-Class.
That said, I do agree with @LexsCTJill that the new LS is more prestigious than the LS' that came before it* and a large part is due to the design but also the sheer size and proportions. In person, the few times I've seen the 5LS driving by, it's hard to miss, especially at night with those stunning headlights. But what you notice compared to all the cars around it is how very long, very sleek, & very wide it is. It has presence that the previous generation cars didn't quite have as they were more subdued and blended in a bit more, but I don't think they were trying to stand out as much as the current car is trying to.
*But to clarify this point, I think if you had each generation of LS side-by-side in front of a group of people who knew nothing about cars and had no idea what they were looking at, they'd agree that each generation got nicer/more luxurious/etc. but the biggest jump would be the 4LS to 5LS. Relatively speaking, just looking at what is in front of you but ignoring what it "is," the 5LS is bolder, flashier, more exciting, more luxurious, expensive looking, etc.
However, I do not think the name "Lexus LS" carries any more weight or prestige than it once did and I don't think the 5LS did anything to change that.
I think in this segment, it's more about what "is" rather than the actual car itself. In this segment, the S-Class just "is" the leader. Mercedes could almost do whatever they wanted with the next-gen car and people would still flock to it because it "is" an S-Class.
03-08-20, 03:06 PM
#60
Lexus Fanatic
Here in my area, you regularly see all sorts of high-end luxury cars. That said, I hardly ever see the new LS. It's a very rare sight. But so to is the 7-Series & A8, though it's hard to go a day without seeing at least a few S-Classes. I think in this segment, the S-Class is just the buyers' (the full-size sedan buyers who are left) default choice because it has the long-standing reputation for being the ultimate status/success symbol that the others don't quite carry. I've seen more Maybach S-Classes than I've seen LS/7/A8/etc.
That said, I do agree with @LexsCTJill that the new LS is more prestigious than the LS' that came before it* and a large part is due to the design but also the sheer size and proportions. In person, the few times I've seen the 5LS driving by, it's hard to miss, especially at night with those stunning headlights. But what you notice compared to all the cars around it is how very long, very sleek, & very wide it is. It has presence that the previous generation cars didn't quite have as they were more subdued and blended in a bit more, but I don't think they were trying to stand out as much as the current car is trying to.
*But to clarify this point, I think if you had each generation of LS side-by-side in front of a group of people who knew nothing about cars and had no idea what they were looking at, they'd agree that each generation got nicer/more luxurious/etc. but the biggest jump would be the 4LS to 5LS. Relatively speaking, just looking at what is in front of you but ignoring what it "is," the 5LS is bolder, flashier, more exciting, more luxurious, expensive looking, etc.
However, I do not think the name "Lexus LS" carries any more weight or prestige than it once did and I don't think the 5LS did anything to change that.
I think in this segment, it's more about what "is" rather than the actual car itself. In this segment, the S-Class just "is" the leader. Mercedes could almost do whatever they wanted with the next-gen car and people would still flock to it because it "is" an S-Class.
That said, I do agree with @LexsCTJill that the new LS is more prestigious than the LS' that came before it* and a large part is due to the design but also the sheer size and proportions. In person, the few times I've seen the 5LS driving by, it's hard to miss, especially at night with those stunning headlights. But what you notice compared to all the cars around it is how very long, very sleek, & very wide it is. It has presence that the previous generation cars didn't quite have as they were more subdued and blended in a bit more, but I don't think they were trying to stand out as much as the current car is trying to.
*But to clarify this point, I think if you had each generation of LS side-by-side in front of a group of people who knew nothing about cars and had no idea what they were looking at, they'd agree that each generation got nicer/more luxurious/etc. but the biggest jump would be the 4LS to 5LS. Relatively speaking, just looking at what is in front of you but ignoring what it "is," the 5LS is bolder, flashier, more exciting, more luxurious, expensive looking, etc.
However, I do not think the name "Lexus LS" carries any more weight or prestige than it once did and I don't think the 5LS did anything to change that.
I think in this segment, it's more about what "is" rather than the actual car itself. In this segment, the S-Class just "is" the leader. Mercedes could almost do whatever they wanted with the next-gen car and people would still flock to it because it "is" an S-Class.