mmarshall

Folks, forgive me, but I'm going to be a little selfish in this thread....though still linked to Car Chat, it's mostly about me, not an automotive issue that we typically all chime in on, though, of course, any of you are free to comment on it or add something if you like. But I'm posting this for a reason....it will help some of you understand why I've posted some of the things I have over the years.

Many of you who know me, and have followed my posts (some of you in support of, and some of you in criticism of), know that I tend to be more conservative than average in my automotive tastes. Although I learned to drive on a typical compact sedan for the period, I grew up during a period when powerful American muscle-cars and L-O-N-G, heavy, ultra-smooth-driving cars were the rage....luxury cars, back then, were generally like your living-room sofa on wheels. Unlike most teens back then (who were mostly muscle-car freaks), I liked both the muscle-cars and the big luxury cars. While I was not adverse to having a little fun now and then with a high-powered Road-Runner, GTO, Challenger, Torino GT, etc. I drove these cars with common sense, and a great deal of respect for their ability to get one into trouble, very quickly, which was one reason why some of my friends who owned these cars had little problem allowing me to sample them...they knew I wouldn't tear them up in senseless drag-racing. I hit the gas pedal hard enough (without over stressing the drivetrain) though, to get an idea of what their 0-60 times would be like.

But, at the same time, I saw the trouble these machines could (and often did) get people into...and saw a lot kids and young adults get hurt or killed in them (the Mustang V8s, which I've expounded on before, seemed to have a particularly bad accident and casualty-rate, even long after the 1960s). I felt much more at home in big, soft-riding luxury cars that some of my friends laughed off as Geezer-Mobiles....though my closest friend was with me on also liking the big boats. We used to have a lot of (sensible) fun together in his dad's big Oldsmobile, my big Buick, and my dad's big Thunderbird. His family later got a new Pontiac GTO that the local Pontiac shop gave away in a contest....we also had (sensible) fun in that, and the compacts that I learned to drive on. These big cars left an indelible impression on me that was to last for decades.

So, naturally, I was saddened by the overall cheapening of American vehicles in the 1970s, the steadily-declining power of engines (some of them wouldn't get out of their own way), the poor drivability of those smog-choked carburetors (although some of the 2-barrel Chrysler carburetors of the 1960s were just as bad), and, worst of all, the huge disruption in the oil/gas market in 1973-74 that forever changed the way vehicles and engines were designed, and (also in 1979) led to severe gas shortages. American cars became smaller and smaller each year, and the big boats I once loved were becoming more and more a distant memory. I also found that the increasing traffic/congestion and building-density meant that there wasn't the space to drive and park these big dinosaurs anymore....so I reluctantly gave them up and started (again) driving the compacts I had learned to drive on.

The only problem, though, is that these were increasingly unreliable compacts. I don't know it it was primarily sloppiness on the part of the UAW, inept design on the part of the designers, constant cost-cutting on the part of management (Chrysler, at the time, was on the verge of bankruptcy)...but IMO, the people that were responsible for the rolling-junk that Detroit produced in the late 70s through the mid-1980s should have been locked up. Folks, even the worst of today's vehicles are light-years ahead of that we put up with 40 years ago....you cannot imagine the poor way that GM and Chrysler vehicles were assembled back then, with Fords and AMC products only slightly better. The worst new vehicles I ever owned (for assembly-quality) were a 1978 Plymouth Horizon and a 1980 Chevy Citation, and, apart from the Smart-for-Two, the two worst vehicles I ever test-drove were the 1984 Pontiac Fiero and 1987 Hyundai Excel.....the Excel wasn't so much poorly-assembled as poorly-engineered.

So, I gave up on Detroit, and switched to Mazda for over a decade (with much better, but not quite Toyota/Honda reliability), then to Toyota/Lexus (though I did own a Saturn SL-2 that I liked...I thought 1990s-era Saturns had a lot of neat features). But, in the back of my mind, I still had never forgotten the big American Geezer-specials of my youth....particularly my big Buick in college, though, by then, they had become notably smaller in size, much more expensive in price, and, of course, sloppily-built. But I was also, by then, used to the much better gas mileage, maneuverability, and handling of smaller vehicles....and, like it or not, the world had changed to a world of smaller cars.

And, today, of course, decades later, it continues to change. Wagons gave way to minivans......then those minivans to passenger-carrying-versions of body-on-frame SUVs....then those truck-based SUVs to crossover SUVs.....and today's rage, of course, is compact/subcompact crossovers, as (still) increasing traffic-density, CAFE/emission requirements, and less room to maneuver and park forces still more downsizing.

I bought a Lacrosse primarily, but not totally, because I saw it as the last chance to enjoy a big Buick sedan almost 40 years after I had my last one...and, as some of you know, I also considered several other competing sedans as well....ES350, G80, MKZ, Avalon, Azera, Chrysler 300, and Impala. I've had it for a few years now, and am not sorry one bit that I got, though I have had a couple of issues with it. I am likely to keep it at least another year or two (maybe longer)...but, particularly as I review more and more new products, I am also finding myself less-picky about what I drive.....make/model/color/options, etc. Even though I suspected it was coming, I'll admit I was mad as hell when Ford and GM made the choice to ax so many of their sedans and close down their plants....and GM paid a huge price for it, both financially and in their public-image, during the long UAW strike. But, like it or not, even though the sedan market has not completely dried up....my local GM dealership still does a brisk sedan business, and, like me, is irked that GM dropped them, but the huge auto-market in the D.C. area is not typical of the country as a whole. Even so, crossovers are clearly the wave of the present, and b**ching about it is not going to change it.....at least in the near-future. So, that is the world I'm going to be facing next time I'm ready to hit the market....and, even for me, it is not all bad. I won't have the Lacrosse's comfort (and American roads lack the smoothness found in Europe)...but the higher ground clearance for the parking-curbs, hatch-access in back, AWD for bad weather, and generally good outward visibility of the more traditionally-styled ones are all big plusses. I'll also be looking at something smaller, more maneuverable, and easier to park. There already are some crossovers I could see myself in, especially if they are reasonably comfortable...but I'll save that for another thread, closer to when it's time to start shopping again.

And, as Always, Happy-Vehicle-Shopping.

MM

Och

iTrader: (3)

Automotive landscape is constantly changing, and its hard to predict the next trend. If you were to ask me 10 years ago, during the recession era and high gas prices, I would have predicted that most people would be driving compact hybrids. Instead people are driving SUVs, and the SUVs are getting bigger than ever. Hybrids are all but dead - they are offered but no longer trendy.

I am surprised how well Tesla is doing. I like Tesla as a company for their ambitious attitude and vision, and I absolutely love the concept of electric drive train, although I acknowledge that charging times are a huge issue. However Tesla's terrible interiors are just not acceptable to me, and I'm surprised so many people are ok with them.

Another growing trend are "luxury pickup trucks", which in my opinion is very stupid and I can't wait for gas prices to skyrocket to reverse it. Mike, I wonder what is your opinion on this trend?

Which crossovers are you considering?

mmarshall

Part of it is from Government action. The last two Administrations (without getting too deeply into the politics) have allowed expended oil-drilling and refinery-construction in areas that were formerly off-limits, thereby increasing our domestic production to the point were we are no longer dependent on OPEC, or high crude-prices anymore. Oil companies can now make a profit, even at the relatively cheap gas prices we see today. Those low gas prices delayed, but did not prevent, the proliferation of hybrids and electrics.

A lot of people also want the safety and security of AWD, which is usually, but not always, found in crossovers.

Hybrids are less-important now because, First, BEVs, particularly from Tesla, have become more efficient, and, Second, more states and localities are starting to commit to expanding the number of available recharging-stations. In my home town, for example, a local shopping center just got a whole new row of them.

Well, my own story, above, probably gives you some insight into that. You and I were raised (and learned to drive) in a clearly different environment, where people actually had to do just that.......DRIVE. We didn't have electronic safety-nannies doing everything for us, and/or didn't have to depend on video-screens. Today's younger drivers grew up in a completely different environment, with the whole world literally in their hands, on a Smart-Phone screen, and expect more or less the same thing in their vehicles. So, what did that give us? Yes, as you note, interiors like this.............



Pickups were once the classic American outdoor work-vehicle, and, in their more basic trim-levels, still are. But the increasing trend toward luxury-versions like the F-150 King-Ranch, Silverado High-Country, Sierra Denali, and Ram Laramie Longhorn seem clearly aimed at two groups....First, those who use pickup as the primary vehicle for their families (who generally like the comfort inside), and, Second, those who simply like the image (and there are plenty of them) of having a cowboy/rancher-vehicle dressed up in a tuxedo. It's a truck version, today, of those buyers, back when I was growing up, who would choose a Cadillac DeVille or Lincoln Continental over a Ford Galaxie/LTD or Chevy Biscayne/Impala.

From a purely vehicle-point of view (and for different reasons), I like the Lincoln Corsair, the GMC Acadia (minus the oddball shift-buttons), the Lexus UX in its upper-level versions, the Buick Enclave (which is essentially an SUV version of my Lacrosse, though I obviously don't need a 3rd-row seat), the Toyota 4Runner (though lacking ride-comfort and not a crossover, it has reliability and rugged underpinnings for the crap-road-surfaces around here). I like some things about the new Buick Encore GX, but have not sampled it on the road (might do so next week), and the Mickey-Mouse turbo 1.2L and 1.3L engines seem a joke. The Hyundai Palisade and Kia Telluride are nice designs, but are currently hard to get and have not been out long enough to tell if there are teething problems or not. They have a third-row seat, but are not quite as large as the Enclave.

Freds430

Many will be to young to get this but the Model 3 interior less the large screen TV looks like the old bumper cars at the amusement park. Remember they had the long pole extended to the ceiling with a flap to pick up the charge. Wait these were the first electric cars. I bet Musk as a teenager worked at one of these. With this interior would not matter if the car was 50% off, would not matter if their reliability moved from 23 out of 31 to # 2 right behind Lexus, would not matter if the insurance which is as high as a Porsche 911 was dropped by half, would not matter if it took four minutes to charge like it takes me to fill-up, would never own. Do I want Lexus to come out with a plug-in hybrid or EV you bet. Will be first on list.

jrmckinley

Ooh, a Tesla picture. Time for a copy/paste response from dozens of other threads pointing out the same inaccurate info. SMH.

4TehNguyen

iTrader: (1)

whats dumber, paying $50k for a loaded Ram Limited or a $55k for an entry level E Class that doesnt even have half the capability of a truck. You havent even realized that a luxury trim truck actually replaces having to purchase two separate vehicles: a luxury vehicle and a separate truck to carry stuff. That alone will save far more than any gas prices can. That is a very vengeful position to wish higher gas prices upon certain vehicle owners because you disapprove of their personal purchase. The US has been a net exporter for petroleum for years now, get used to low gas prices.

I have to pick up 20 bags of mulch after work for the garden. Try doing that without a truck/SUV

mmarshall

I used the Model 3's interior because it is arguably the most extreme example of today's technology transforming what used to be button-and-switch interiors into Screen-O-Matics.

Toys4RJill

Lol. Very true.

mmarshall

Depending on the size of the bags, it might (?) work in a minivan with the rear seats folded down or removed (As in Chrysler's Stow-N-Go system)...but, in general, your point is well-taken. It also shows why bed-liners have become so popular.

Kennyr44

I too was a car guy my whole life. Volvo's because I worked on them then LS's for 20 years. Of course I had my share of extra non car vehicles but always drove a car as a daily. As I got older things changed. It was a pain to get in and out of a low car. Scraping my front bumper or splash pan on parking stops was annoying as hell. Crawling through the potholes and speed bumps along with looking up to all the SUV's didn't help. Not having all the new great features bugged me. I found myself driving my wife's Grand Cherokee more than my perfect LS460 [which annoyed the hell out of her] so I traded for a Hyundai Santa Fe and couldn't be happier. I could have kept the LS too but I try not to hoard things I don't need. The RX350's exterior and lack of left leg room disqualified it for me. The Santa Fe is cheap, loaded, comfortable and fast. I do love this forum though even though I currently don't own a Lexus.

mmarshall

Thanks for your input. Higher-stance SUVs and trucks can also be an entry/exit pain, depending on exactly how they are designed and what part of your back or legs get the most strain getting in and out. Running-boards can help in some circumstances...on some premium/higher-priced SUVs and trucks, they automatically fold in and out upon door-opening or engine shutdown.

Your point about parking curbs and speed bumps is well-taken. I don't do it with my ultra-low-slung Lacrosse, but that is only because I am very careful in my driving and parking habits.

Och

iTrader: (3)

Usually getting into a reasonably sized SUV/CUV is easier than a sedan. Also, many people with small children prefer SUVs, because it is easier to put kids into car seats in an SUV vs a sedan.

Personally I've always been fond of coupes, my first car was a Civic coupe, I had a 335 coupe, m235i coupe, m2 coupe, and my next car is probably going to be the new Supra.

jrmckinley

As you can see by the thread I quoted in my response, that was not directed at you. I don't know how many times I have to read the same inaccurate information about insurance rates on a Tesla. It's just copy & paste of the same info every time someone mentions Tesla.

EZZ

Its like every forum. There are always brands that are anti-thesis to the main demographic that participates in the forum so its always attacked. You mention Lexus in a BMW forum and its literally called things like ancient tech, grandma mobile, garbage powertrains, and spruced up Toyota.

Back on topic...i like crossovers that have a RWD based chassis. I think the RX handles like garbage...complete rubbish compared to the X3/X5. It doesn't make sense given the Q5 handles pretty well and its FWD.

mmarshall

At most legal speeds in the U.S., and/or under most driving conditions, most people probably won't really notice the difference between FWD an RWD handling unless they really push it. RWD superiority is most noticeable under track conditions, which the average driver doesn't do.