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They should put the money/research instead into fixing/addressing all the problems with the LS500, getting a decent upgraded 6 cylinder engine into cars like the IS, RC, GS(too late now I guess) as quickly as possible instead of this big SUV that may not sell.
They should put the money/research instead into fixing/addressing all the problems with the LS500, getting a decent upgraded 6 cylinder engine into cars like the IS, RC, GS(too late now I guess) as quickly as possible instead of this big SUV that may not sell.
I don't think there's any chance this SUV wont sell, SUVs are hot. There is however a very large chance new engines and tweaking of the LS500 wont make a difference in those sales because of the decline of sedans.
I don't think there's any chance this SUV wont sell, SUVs are hot. There is however a very large chance new engines and tweaking of the LS500 wont make a difference in those sales because of the decline of sedans.
The LQ will sell as well as it can depending on whether it is made specifically for USA or for all world markets. If it skews towards world markets, it will sell OK in the US and not great. And then all the complaining will emerge. In contrast, if Lexus builds a LX500 for the USA first and foremost and designs the model to be as large as a Navigator or Escalade, Lexus will have a monster hit.
Looks to me based on the concepts, the new LQ will be made for world markets. Therefor, there will be some compromise for sizing in the US.
I don't think there's any chance this SUV wont sell, SUVs are hot. There is however a very large chance new engines and tweaking of the LS500 wont make a difference in those sales because of the decline of sedans.
Big, expensive Lexus SUV's like the LX were never huge sellers or made big waves/had the image sales like Navigators or Escalades did. They aren't common sites on the road. Even to this day LX's sell in smaller numbers then just about all Lexus models. I think they should address their big problems first before dumping so much money/attention into a new SUV that might not even sell well.
Big, expensive Lexus SUV's like the LX were never huge sellers or made big waves/had the image sales like Navigators or Escalades did. They aren't common sites on the road. Even to this day LX's sell in smaller numbers then just about all Lexus models. I think they should address their big problems first before dumping so much money/attention into a new SUV that might not even sell well.
But thats because of the product itself, the LX is just not a competitive product. If this vehicle delivers on product, it will sell great.
But thats because of the product itself, the LX is just not a competitive product. If this vehicle delivers on product, it will sell great.
And this is the big issue for Lexus.
Over the decades, the RX has had booming sales. A fact.
However, look at compact NX sales & consumer response?
Just as RX starts at $44k to GLE Class's $54k, that's why RX can sell 111k/yr to GLE's 50k/yr.
Likewise, NX starts at $36k to GLC's $42k, yet NX can only sell 52k last year, and 62k in 2018 at best - to GLC's 73k. NX only selling at 2/3 of GLC, while RX sells >2x GLE.
Why?
Why does RX do so well relative to its peers, yet NX does not?
The manufacturers understand precisely why, because they pay for 3rd party feedback survey data.
The public, we know if sales & hence consumer response is good/bad, however we do not know exactly why - we can only guess.
I suspect RX styling has been consistently good, even though the ride & NVH is not as good as GLE Class.
I suspect NX styling has NOT been competitive with GLC styling.
Mercedes are generally very good at styling.
BMW plays second fiddle to Benz.
However in my experience, Lexus is very inconsistent with styling.
IMO, current RX is superbly styled, hence the sales.
UX is well styled, however Americans don't really enjoy subcompacts.
IMO, NX is a bit weak on the rear 3/4 view, hence the weak sales?
This is only an opinion, and only the manufacturers via 3rd party feedback surveys have the facts.
However, overall we know that something is weak about NX sales relative to its compact peers, as opposed to strong RX sales relative to its midsize peers.
The bottom line is that President Akio must get the forthcoming Lexus LQ's styling right.
Successful selling models often have good or at least decent styling.
Over the years, Lexus has been very inconsistent with styling.
For example, the new midsize Genesis GV80 - IMHO, I don't expect sales to be very good relative to its midsize peers.
It won't be good relative to RX, nor GLE.
Let's see if I am right?
Just looking at it & knowing the sporty design, I knew 5LS would not sell, even before it had been released onto the market.
Sports designs generally sell poorly & not well accepted by the public.
Sports designs are good for "niching".
The RX doesn't really compare to the GLE, its considerably cheaper. As for the NX vs the GLC, all one has to do is drive the two and the reason why the GLC sells better is obvious. The NX isn't a very good product.
The RX doesn't really compare to the GLE, its considerably cheaper. As for the NX vs the GLC, all one has to do is drive the two and the reason why the GLC sells better is obvious. The NX isn't a very good product.
And I think the RX is hideous. Lots of people do.
You are entitled to think that RX is hideous.
Lots of people may think that RX styling is hideous, but probably a whole lot more think that it is reasonably attractive - judging by 111k/yr sales.
We can only give opinions, however the manufacturers with their 3rd party feedback stats will know much more accurately and quantitatively.
Neither NX nor RX drive well; both have a sportyish ride on noticeably low profile tires.
Both GLC and GLE ride more smoothly and quietly.
NX $36k to GLC's $42k, and RX's $44k to GLE's $54k - both Lexiis are cheap relative to their German counterparts.
Yet, the fact is that NX only sells 2/3 of GLC, while RX sells >2x GLE!
Nowadays, it's not good enough just to be an SUV.
The product must be good, and well styled too.
I wouldn't consider the RX ride to be sporty at all. All the ones I have driven are very comfort focused. The NX has a firm sporty ride sure.
NX sales are fine, also.At 52k in sales it is Lexus' third best selling vehicle.
Your perspective on this is unusual, as usual.
I don't think so.
You are too opinionated as usual.
Steve, you would be better off being positive by giving your opinion, rather than being negative & criticizing another person's opinion.
Styling, ride & NVH are opinions, hence I don't waste time arguing.
NX selling @ 2/3 GLC, while RX selling >2x GLE is fact.
This is a huge discrepancy!
Curiosity asks why?
To account for the facts, we use opinions.
The LQ will sell as well as it can depending on whether it is made specifically for USA or for all world markets. If it skews towards world markets, it will sell OK in the US and not great. And then all the complaining will emerge. In contrast, if Lexus builds a LX500 for the USA first and foremost and designs the model to be as large as a Navigator or Escalade, Lexus will have a monster hit.
Looks to me based on the concepts, the new LQ will be made for world markets. Therefor, there will be some compromise for sizing in the US.
The LQ, if its targeting that upper echelon of Sporty/GT crossover, will not really take into account geography, similar to its competitors; its going to be a one size fits all. The LX and its replacements is a hard one to crack with a lot of geographical wants and needs (US dealers want a extra long SUV, globally folks want desert/offroad luxury cruisers/limos). That design team will have a fun time (just dont repeat the RX-L debacle).
And it was all down hill after that. Most of those sales were likely built off the reputation off the 430. Didn't take long for things to go south, even though everything went south with the financial crisis. But, when everything came back, the 460 didn't return to the top spot it inherited from the 430. And being the least expensive among the top competitors, it should have had an advantage to be back on top.
Precisely. The 430 actually was a better car than the W220 and E65 7 series, easily. We know the cost cutting the W220 went through, and the controversial Bangle Butt 7 series....well, BMW can't make a V8 that lasts much longer than 60,000 miles before it starts blowing blue smoke, so there's that. LS430 was the last true LS that was world-class, that's just the way it is. The R&D for the 430 was insane, like the original LS. Sadly, from the LS460 on the Germans caught up and surpassed "as the better car" than the LS even if it was still way more reliable.
I have high hopes for this new LQ or whatever. Lexus has the resources and money to knock it out of the park, it would be nice to see them finally stretch their muscles again like they did with the LC.
And people would have no problem plunking down 100k for a flagship SUV Lexus crossover or whatever it will be if they get it right. LX isn't a mass produced vehicle but I see a plenty out on the roads.
I am definitely far from the authority on Toyota Motor Company movements, but I must point out that it's probably a better idea to refer to this vehicle as LF- 1 for now. The trademark filed by Toyota on May 7, 2018 for LQ was actually for this Tokyo Motor Show 2019 LQ Concept.
Judging by a past trademark filing for TX on October 20, 2009 by Toyota, it was dredged up later on in 2013 by news media (when pre-facelift GX was struggling) and nothing ever came of it, because it wasn't even a full Lexus nomenclature orientation of XX ###x (ie LS 500h). It was just 2 letters. TX filing died unused in 2017.
I would wait until a proper trademark filing like LQ 600 is made. 95% of filings like that actually go into production. Way less than 50% of 2-character Toyota trademark filings go into production.
There is no Lexus LQ crossover, when RX, NX, and UX exist, so LF-1 is probably the best thing to call it. They'll have to get creative with L-flagship naming or be forced to overhaul their whole naming structure, like Infiniti or Mercedes-Benz.
Originally Posted by peteharvey
I don't think so.
You are too opinionated as usual.
Steve, you would be better off being positive by giving your opinion, rather than being negative & criticizing another person's opinion.
Styling, ride & NVH are opinions, hence I don't waste time arguing.
NX selling @ 2/3 GLC, while RX selling >2x GLE is fact.
This is a huge discrepancy!
Curiosity asks why?
To account for the facts, we use opinions.
.
I like this post. A reason I don't care for posting here much, as the Car Chat environment can become a ego-stroking circle jerk and rivaled the Debate Forum. A reason why I like Lexus Enthusiast and German Car Forum. Mild to intense opinions, but we play it off with a laugh.
We are entitled to our perspectives, without condescension or snarky digs. Whether or not we agree. I am simply reactive, not a s***starter of course and my post history shows that.
Precisely. The 430 actually was a better car than the W220 and E65 7 series, easily. We know the cost cutting the W220 went through, and the controversial Bangle Butt 7 series....well, BMW can't make a V8 that lasts much longer than 60,000 miles before it starts blowing blue smoke, so there's that. LS430 was the last true LS that was world-class, that's just the way it is. The R&D for the 430 was insane, like the original LS. Sadly, from the LS460 on the Germans caught up and surpassed "as the better car" than the LS even if it was still way more reliable.
I have high hopes for this new LQ or whatever. Lexus has the resources and money to knock it out of the park, it would be nice to see them finally stretch their muscles again like they did with the LC.
And people would have no problem plunking down 100k for a flagship SUV Lexus crossover or whatever it will be if they get it right. LX isn't a mass produced vehicle but I see a plenty out on the roads.
Apparently the LS430, was the last LS on its own platform, distinct from the Crown. The high sales made an LS specific platform worthwhile, which of course was carryover in 1994. XF40 sold from 2006 to 2017, was on a stretched version of the N Platform shared with S180, S200, S210 Crown, XE20 IS, Mark X, and S190 GS.
Even the current GS rode on a newer "New N", shared with no Toyota vehicle. And I loved the 4LS even, but it wasn't as bespoke.
04-25-20, 09:30 AM
L-flagship naming or be forced to overhaul their whole naming structure, like Infiniti or Mercedes-Benz.
I like this post. A reason I don't care for posting here much, as the Car Chat environment can become a ego-stroking circle jerk and rivaled the Debate Forum. A reason why I like Lexus Enthusiast and German Car Forum. Mild to intense opinions, but we play it off with a laugh.