Toys4RJill

I think he is wrong. Lexus now is a global brand. They sell plenty of $60k product worldwide. US was the core before, but no longer.

SW17LS

The LS is a special car to me, so I'm not really like a normal consumer. Lexus lost tons of customers to Mercedes and crossovers by delaying an all new LS, and then the all new LS they rolled out didn't appeal to their core customer, and the result of that is what you see now in sales. Lets put it this way, the new LS doesn't speak to me despite the LS being a special car to me, it just doesn't feel like an LS.

Lexus agrees too, hence why the 2020 LS500 was tweaked to be softer riding, as is the 2021 LC.

If they can learn from those mistakes and make this LQ what their customers want, a comfortable, high quality incredibly nice riding and elegant car at a good value...the customers will be there.

SW17LS

What Lexus products over $60k are selling really well worldwide? Remember that $60k figure is in US dollars.

They only have 3 vehicles that are over $60k, the LS, the LC and the LX.

Toys4RJill

We shall see. I think people outgrow brands and they struggle to want move on. Tesla model S decimated the large luxury sedan segment. The newer LS and LC cars are the most prestigious cars Lexus has ever done, they are the type of car that will be on Harry Garage or Jay Leno. This was the idea behind them. They appeal to a new type of customer...and you see this with the worldwide sales vs the North American sales.

SW17LS

The brand itself has changed a lot. You said yourself that "they appeal to a new type of customer", well then how can it be that we have outgrown the brand? The brand's philosophy has fundamentally changed In a way I've never seen in the industry. A Lexus buyer from 2010 literally finds nothing familiar in a 2020 Lexus. Thats pretty remarkable, and its the brand thats changed not us.

So, what are the worldwide sales of the LS and LC? Where exactly are they selling so much better than here?

Toys4RJill

I don’t have the exact numbers for the LS and LC. I believe they are around 25K for the LS with China being by far the largest market, they are really hard to find and I think Lexus Enthusiast has them. It really makes no difference which one of those sells as they are both of the same platform, same plant and similar price points, this new crossover if based on the LS is just another way to sell at the same price point for the same platform.

I do get what you say that Lexus is totally different than they were in the past, but the goal was to grow worldwide as that is where the growth is. Hybrids are where Toyota is making their increases.



^^^ the growth is coming from outside of the US.

From the looks of it. Lexus will go to more performance with their new LS and LC with F brand models. These models don’t really appeal to the traditional Lexus buyer form 20 years ago, but at the same time, a brand needs to evolve and move on.

I think this new LQ will do OK for Lexus. Won’t be like a X7 but more like a Lexus UX type model. I do think Lexus should offer a body on frame Lexus that is US only off at the Sequoia size to compare with Navigator and Escalade.

Bob04

I'd have to see some evidence of that to believe it.

SW17LS

So if the LS is selling 25k units worldwide, thats still 10k units less than what it used to sell just in the US.

EZZ

That's very dinky number of units. Definitely a failed product.

Bob04

The LS only sold 5500 units and the LC only sold 1200 units in the US last year. The US is the biggest market for Lexus. No way they got to 25k worldwide.

Toys4RJill

Yes. But you spread out the sales to new markets. Sedans are dead in the US and past LS would never ever happen. There are very few sedans that have shown year over year growth in sales numbers compared to the past. Anything off the GA-L line what Toyota is after. So this new LQ expands on the GA-L platform, my guess is that at some point there will be 100,000 LQ/LS/LC numbers from the same platform.

Do you think Lexus would have ever topped their first year LS460 sales numbers with a new Lexus in the US?

I doubt Lexus sells more than 20K LX570/450d worldwide? They can sustain the LS models only because of the world markets.

Bob04

It's the brand. The Lexus brand is now first and foremost a premium brand. Not so much a luxury brand like BMW and MB. When people hear MB, they think S-Class. When most people hear Lexus, they think RX/ES. That's the difference. So now, Lexus is trying to upsell from the premium market into the luxury market with the LQ. That's a lot tougher than the other way around.

Toys4RJill

The worldwide combined minus the US for Lexus IS bigger than the US market. I think Lexus sells 500K throughout the rest of the world and about 300K in the US today. Lexus was not a global brand in the past like they are today

China has now become the most important market for Lexus....the growth was off the charts

coolsaber

So much of the LQ depends on the product ethos and how the LQ experience as a package differentiates itself from say an ES or RX customer.

If your gonna be as rigid as they currently are with custom orders....good luck

Bob04

In 2010, the US accounted for 35% of Lexus total worldwide sales. In 2019, that was 38%