2022 Lexus LQ Will be the New Flagship Lexus SUV
04-17-20, 07:19 PM
#46
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 04-17-20 at 07:34 PM.
04-17-20, 07:37 PM
#47
652K Worldwide.
And, yeah, I followed the LS500 sales because I was dismissed when I said, as soon as it was shown to the public, that it would be a sales disaster. And I was correct. I knew it would alienate more loyal LS customers than bring in new customers.
I think the same will happen with the LQ. I don't think Lexus has it in them anymore to build a truly great, class-leading luxury vehicle that undercuts the competition in price.
04-17-20, 07:39 PM
#48
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
The new LS500 definitely has alienated past LS owners, but like I said earlier, it was designed for a new buyer...I think it was the first LS for China.
But back to the LQ:
My personal feelings for the new LQ is that it will be like a giant UX, not quite a large crossover, but not exactly a car. Sort of like a new segment. Hybrid will be the dominant model outside the US for the LQ. I truly hope it’s a 5 seater. I think it will do well.
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 04-17-20 at 08:04 PM.
04-17-20, 08:35 PM
#49
Whatever it is, I want them to make it high end enough to elevate the brand position relative to the German three. Or at least provide a trim level that’s high end.
I always thought the idea of a value luxury brand to be sort of a contradiction unto itself. That’s the problem with Acura, and I hope Lexus doesn’t become the next Acura.
I always thought the idea of a value luxury brand to be sort of a contradiction unto itself. That’s the problem with Acura, and I hope Lexus doesn’t become the next Acura.
04-17-20, 09:09 PM
#50
Lexus had an ultra high-end supercar with the LFA made in ultra limited quantities, and even THAT somehow sold poorly despite all the hype. Up to a year ago these decade-old cars were still sitting on dealer lots:
https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...s-the-country/
Unfortunately, Lexus just doesn't have the clout to be making ultra ultra high-end exotics that Mercedes and BMW and Porsche sell in droves.
https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...s-the-country/
Unfortunately, Lexus just doesn't have the clout to be making ultra ultra high-end exotics that Mercedes and BMW and Porsche sell in droves.
Last edited by Motorola; 04-17-20 at 09:13 PM.
04-18-20, 01:33 AM
#51
I totally disagree, this will sell extremely well if they get it right. The issue with high end sales for Lexus isn't the price point, its the product compared to competitors.
$60,000 is nothing today, people will pay $80, 90, 100k for a Lexus no problem if the product is right.
$60,000 is nothing today, people will pay $80, 90, 100k for a Lexus no problem if the product is right.
Disagree. If Lexus offers a competitive product in all areas instead of relying on reliability as their sale pitch they will sell just as well. Slap the Lexus Badge on a X7 and imo Lexus would sell a ton. Right now lexus is way behind in Tech (infortainment), performance and models with the same design for almost a decade.
Lexus was successful in the high end market when they made a high end product that was better than the offerings from BMW and MB at a discount. The LS460 wasn't that. The LS500 isn't that. Even the beautiful LC500 isn't that. And the sales numbers show it. If someone is dropping a ton of money and wants to look like they dropped a ton of money, Lexus isn't really where they look now.
The 4th gen LS460 cracked 35,000 units in its first full year 2007 USA.
True, the questionably styled and sporty low roofline low seating position front mid-engined 5LS is NOT selling.
I think 5LS was down to a disgusting 300+ units a month USA prior to Corona virus.
Many previous generations of LS's led the full size luxury market in its first full year - without the need for a V12.
Even with the current 5LS - add a V8 Twin Turbo, and sales will hardly lift.
I know. But it was a time where Toyota started their TNGA restructuring plans to develop a world platform to help better compare to their competitors. Their new cars are very very good. They are better driver cars than ever before. You leased an additional LS460, so the platform delay didn’t matter to you.
We shall see. I think people outgrow brands and they struggle to want move on. Tesla model S decimated the large luxury sedan segment. The newer LS and LC cars are the most prestigious cars Lexus has ever done, they are the type of car that will be on Harry Garage or Jay Leno. This was the idea behind them. They appeal to a new type of customer...and you see this with the worldwide sales vs the North American sales.
Model S is NOT as roomy as Genesis G80.
Hence, the Model S has a cheaper starting price to the full size luxury sedans.
The Model S is actually only a very very expensive midsize luxury BEV - hence higher sales than the classic full size luxury sedans.
The Tesla Model S also sold well because it is a totally different type of design - a BEV.
Sure you can redesign 5LS for a new type of customer, but at the end of the day, 5LS is NOT selling, and consumers are choosing to purcase S Class and 7 Series instead.
Yes. But you spread out the sales to new markets. Sedans are dead in the US and past LS would never ever happen. There are very few sedans that have shown year over year growth in sales numbers compared to the past. Anything off the GA-L line what Toyota is after. So this new LQ expands on the GA-L platform, my guess is that at some point there will be 100,000 LQ/LS/LC numbers from the same platform.
Do you think Lexus would have ever topped their first year LS460 sales numbers with a new Lexus in the US?
I doubt Lexus sells more than 20K LX570/450d worldwide? They can sustain the LS models only because of the world markets.
Do you think Lexus would have ever topped their first year LS460 sales numbers with a new Lexus in the US?
I doubt Lexus sells more than 20K LX570/450d worldwide? They can sustain the LS models only because of the world markets.
It will be interesting to see next gen S Class sales in its first full year 2021 next year.
It's not that sedans are dead, but 5LS is questionably styled, with questionable sporty design that does NOT suit many buyers.
How can Lexus be class leading in the LS category In the past when they never ever had a V12 to compare to the German brands? If I recall Mercedes even had two V8s at the time when Lexus just had one V8. Makes no sense. I recall the LS being a very good value model in the segment
The new LS500 definitely has alienated past LS owners, but like I said earlier, it was designed for a new buyer...I think it was the first LS for China.
But back to the LQ:
My personal feelings for the new LQ is that it will be like a giant UX, not quite a large crossover, but not exactly a car. Sort of like a new segment. Hybrid will be the dominant model outside the US for the LQ. I truly hope it’s a 5 seater. I think it will do well.
The new LS500 definitely has alienated past LS owners, but like I said earlier, it was designed for a new buyer...I think it was the first LS for China.
But back to the LQ:
My personal feelings for the new LQ is that it will be like a giant UX, not quite a large crossover, but not exactly a car. Sort of like a new segment. Hybrid will be the dominant model outside the US for the LQ. I truly hope it’s a 5 seater. I think it will do well.
I hate to say this, but I don't think the new LQ will sell well.
The problem?
IMO, the styling - it is NOT right.
If Lexus styles LQ as an evolution to current RX, then LQ will sell like hot cakes!
And remember, RX is cheap FWD-based with cheap single lower link MacPherson strut suspension - but more importantly, RX is very well styled, though styling is very subjective and arguable.
Sales has a lot to do with styling.
Remember the Lexus 3GS?
It was low, swoopily styled, with a tiny trunk opening, and a cramped interior - yet it sold over 33k in its first full year USA.
Why? Thanks to L-Finesse styling!
By 2013, my taller, more boxy, more practical yet firmly suspended 4GS could only manage a paltry 22k in its first full year USA, when E Class and 5 Series of the same era both raised their peak sales.
Why are Mazdas selling so well? The styling!
Presently, Mazdas have low rooflines, low seating positions, firmish sporty rides, not the best in NVH - but the styling still sells.
The biggest reason why Acura NO longer sell? IMO the styling.
What didn't Infiniti's full size Q45 sell? The drop kick styling. IMO anyway...
After styling then comes space, ergonomics, performance, economy, handling, ride, NVH, safety, reliability and all the other factors.
Mazdas sell reasonably well, but because the space, ride and NVH are sportily compromized, Mazdas do NOT sell exceptionally well.
Because previous generations of Lexus LS's had a deft combination of styling, space, performance, economy, maneuverability, handling, ride, NVH, equipment, safety, reliability etc etc - they sold exceptionally well.
5LS sales are very poor, because 5LS neither has the styling of the old coupe-like Lexus 3GS, nor the practical functionality of space, ride and refinement.
Believe me, a V8 TT will do almost nothing to lift 5LS sales.
Whatever it is, I want them to make it high end enough to elevate the brand position relative to the German three. Or at least provide a trim level that’s high end.
I always thought the idea of a value luxury brand to be sort of a contradiction unto itself. That’s the problem with Acura, and I hope Lexus doesn’t become the next Acura.
I always thought the idea of a value luxury brand to be sort of a contradiction unto itself. That’s the problem with Acura, and I hope Lexus doesn’t become the next Acura.
NX is satisfactorily styled, with reasonable sales.
UX is well styled, but subcompacts not favored in US.
ES is very well styled in a declining sedan market, hence only reasonable sales.
However, IMO 5LS is poorly styled with appalling sales - as will be the forthcoming LQ - IMHO.
A high riding RWD-based SUV will NOT guarantee sales, unless the styling is right!
The forthcoming Lexus LQ seems to have promising mechanicals with 3.5 TT & RWD most probably with front double wishbones to help keep the front tires perpendicular to the road surface to maximize grip, however IMO the LQ's styling is not right - to be a sales success.
President Akio MUST get the styling right!
Despite their poor build quality etc, and no sun visors nor cup holders etc, one of the reasons why Teslas sell so well is because of their styling.
The Model S has particularly good styling on the side profile and the rear 3/4 view.
Lexus had an ultra high-end supercar with the LFA made in ultra limited quantities, and even THAT somehow sold poorly despite all the hype. Up to a year ago these decade-old cars were still sitting on dealer lots:
https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...s-the-country/
Unfortunately, Lexus just doesn't have the clout to be making ultra ultra high-end exotics that Mercedes and BMW and Porsche sell in droves.
https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...s-the-country/
Unfortunately, Lexus just doesn't have the clout to be making ultra ultra high-end exotics that Mercedes and BMW and Porsche sell in droves.
.
Last edited by peteharvey; 04-18-20 at 04:40 AM.
04-18-20, 04:05 AM
#52
Lexus Test Driver
The new LS was Dead on Arrival- any person with even hint of knowledge about sedan luxury segment could have predicted that.
Its less roomy upfront than my old 2013 535i with poor headroom. Rear space is shockingly small compared to Sclass / 7series.
When the cheap ES has larger interior then you have problems.
The turbo V6 engine and no V8 was nail in the coffin.
If new G90 was the LS - it would be selling like crazy.
LQ is a terrible name - leave the Qs to Infiniti
Its less roomy upfront than my old 2013 535i with poor headroom. Rear space is shockingly small compared to Sclass / 7series.
When the cheap ES has larger interior then you have problems.
The turbo V6 engine and no V8 was nail in the coffin.
If new G90 was the LS - it would be selling like crazy.
LQ is a terrible name - leave the Qs to Infiniti
04-18-20, 05:58 AM
#53
Funny thing about that cause Genesis is currently working on a GV90. At the rate they're pumping out product right now, wouldn't surprise me if they beat Lexus to the punch before they can release the LQ or whatever they want to call it. Lexus better put in a lot of work because nothing in their current lineup can even compete with the technology of the GV80, and Genesis isn't slowing down with just that.
04-18-20, 06:15 AM
#54
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Funny thing about that cause Genesis is currently working on a GV90. At the rate they're pumping out product right now, wouldn't surprise me if they beat Lexus to the punch before they can release the LQ or whatever they want to call it. Lexus better put in a lot of work because nothing in their current lineup can even compete with the technology of the GV80, and Genesis isn't slowing down with just that.
04-18-20, 06:22 AM
#55
Like what? The current Lexus 3.5tt is rated at about 35hp more than the GV80 3.5tt that is new to market. Genesis has no hybrids. The current Lexus LS Torsen AWD is superior the Hyundai H-trac awd. There is lots of tech from Toyota that is ahead, the engine is just one of them
Also, the Genesis AWD is the exact same thing as BMW xDrive, both designed and built by Magna Steyr. It's one of if not the best AWD system. Get your facts straight.
Last edited by Motorola; 04-18-20 at 06:25 AM.
04-18-20, 06:25 AM
#56
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
It's hilarious how you always raise the same weak arguments that I and others have already torpedoed multiple times and you somehow think the result will be any different if you regurgitate your words. Not worth my breath.
Also, the Genesis AWD is the exact same thing as BMW X-Drive, built by Magna Steyr. Get your facts straight.
Also, the Genesis AWD is the exact same thing as BMW X-Drive, built by Magna Steyr. Get your facts straight.
04-18-20, 06:30 AM
#57
Pole Position
Oh come on people! Be realistic! Reason why LS of last decade and before it sold in big numbers was because it was hell a lot better value than Germans. Read it: cheaper by tens of thousands of dollars depending on configuration. ES being priced as entry sedan instead of midsize sedan is the reason why it sells good. RX being cheaper than ML and X5 is the reason why it sells more. THAT'S IT!
It's not styling, it's not headroom, it's not quarter of an inch of legroom at the back, it's all about pricing! Believe the moment RX gets on equal pricing with X5 and GLE they can kiss amazing sales numbers good bye!
LS500 is not a good value anymore, it's not a reasonable almost loaded $65k flagship compared to $85k Germans anymore. It is not. Today's LS is $75k car with multiple & well above $10k add on option packages. Some lower end configuration easily adds up $15k in individual options and that's without any rear seat upgrade. Previous LS460's the most expensive package was Executive Seating for $11K while regular rear seat upgrade was just below $5K. So option packages have more than doubled.
In my honest opinion LS500h is the best falgship Lexus has ever made but that doesn't justify that it lacks in technology department big time. You could tell designers and engineers didn't know where to go with this car so they made a Frankenstein, pseudo modern car with decade year old technology.
It's not styling, it's not headroom, it's not quarter of an inch of legroom at the back, it's all about pricing! Believe the moment RX gets on equal pricing with X5 and GLE they can kiss amazing sales numbers good bye!
LS500 is not a good value anymore, it's not a reasonable almost loaded $65k flagship compared to $85k Germans anymore. It is not. Today's LS is $75k car with multiple & well above $10k add on option packages. Some lower end configuration easily adds up $15k in individual options and that's without any rear seat upgrade. Previous LS460's the most expensive package was Executive Seating for $11K while regular rear seat upgrade was just below $5K. So option packages have more than doubled.
In my honest opinion LS500h is the best falgship Lexus has ever made but that doesn't justify that it lacks in technology department big time. You could tell designers and engineers didn't know where to go with this car so they made a Frankenstein, pseudo modern car with decade year old technology.
04-18-20, 06:34 AM
#58
I am just curious how you said Lexus has no technology that is on part with the GV80....The new 3.5tt from Toyota appears to be superior to the new Hyundai motor in the GV80 just based on rating. I will always take the Torsen awd over the X7 set up, but I doubt the new LQ will have a torsen set up. And the GV80 has no hybrid... So not sure how my examples are weak .
All you ever do is move goalposts and use the same weak arguments that get trampled over and over again. Anything that is perceived as a flaw is brushed aside by you because you somehow think "Lexus doesn't need it". This is the kind of attitude that encourages any brand to be mediocre.
04-18-20, 06:34 AM
#59
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
In my honest opinion LS500h is the best falgship Lexus has ever made but that doesn't justify that it lacks in technology department big time. You could tell designers and engineers didn't know where to go with this car so they made a Frankenstein, pseudo modern car with decade year old technology.
You seem to be getting a little personal IMO and it appears you don't really want to have a discussion where you might be able to see my point of view or opinion.
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 04-18-20 at 06:41 AM.
04-18-20, 06:42 AM
#60
You seem to be getting a little personal IMO and it appears you don't really want to have a discussion where you might be able to see my point of view or opinion.
Last edited by Motorola; 04-18-20 at 06:46 AM.