2022 Lexus LQ Will be the New Flagship Lexus SUV
04-18-20, 03:51 PM
#76
Oh come on people! Be realistic! Reason why LS of last decade and before it sold in big numbers was because it was hell a lot better value than Germans. Read it: cheaper by tens of thousands of dollars depending on configuration. ES being priced as entry sedan instead of midsize sedan is the reason why it sells good. RX being cheaper than ML and X5 is the reason why it sells more. THAT'S IT!
It's not styling, it's not headroom, it's not quarter of an inch of legroom at the back, it's all about pricing!Believe the moment RX gets on equal pricing with X5 and GLE they can kiss amazing sales numbers good bye!
LS500 is not a good value anymore, it's not a reasonable almost loaded $65k flagship compared to $85k Germans anymore. It is not. Today's LS is $75k car with multiple & well above $10k add on option packages. Some lower end configuration easily adds up $15k in individual options and that's without any rear seat upgrade. Previous LS460's the most expensive package was Executive Seating for $11K while regular rear seat upgrade was just below $5K. So option packages have more than doubled.
In my honest opinion LS500h is the best falgship Lexus has ever made but that doesn't justify that it lacks in technology department big time. You could tell designers and engineers didn't know where to go with this car so they made a Frankenstein, pseudo modern car with decade year old technology.
It's not styling, it's not headroom, it's not quarter of an inch of legroom at the back, it's all about pricing!Believe the moment RX gets on equal pricing with X5 and GLE they can kiss amazing sales numbers good bye!
LS500 is not a good value anymore, it's not a reasonable almost loaded $65k flagship compared to $85k Germans anymore. It is not. Today's LS is $75k car with multiple & well above $10k add on option packages. Some lower end configuration easily adds up $15k in individual options and that's without any rear seat upgrade. Previous LS460's the most expensive package was Executive Seating for $11K while regular rear seat upgrade was just below $5K. So option packages have more than doubled.
In my honest opinion LS500h is the best falgship Lexus has ever made but that doesn't justify that it lacks in technology department big time. You could tell designers and engineers didn't know where to go with this car so they made a Frankenstein, pseudo modern car with decade year old technology.
If this was true, the Infiniti Q45 full size flagship would never have been axed, but it was axed due to poor sales.
Cheap pricing is NOT good enough.
I'm not sure I agree with this. In fact, I recall the looks and interior design of the LFA (as well as its engine sound) were almost universally praised. The performance could have been better, but certainly comparably priced, powered, and limited production vehicles have sold better from other brands before (like the Bentley Brooklands).
These reports of Lexus making the SUV being 600 HP sound completely out of character for the brand. Realistically, I don't expect it to get any better engines than the LS unless it becomes popular enough for an F variant. That's the only way I can see them keeping the price around that of the current LX as well.
These reports of Lexus making the SUV being 600 HP sound completely out of character for the brand. Realistically, I don't expect it to get any better engines than the LS unless it becomes popular enough for an F variant. That's the only way I can see them keeping the price around that of the current LX as well.
Styling is quantitized and made objective by polling and surveys, however the manufacturers rarely release the results of their surveys.
Lexus can't compete in the segment if it has no products to offer. Lexus can't command those prices if it has no product to offer. Yes, at first Lexus will have difficulty selling at those prices. With the right products and the right marketing, Lexus can compete and command at those prices.
Every Lexus product should have different models of performance oriented models. Much like Audi, BMW and Mercedes. This attracts the buyer into the showroom and most importantly, free media attention. Not a week goes by without an article about an upcoming Audi, BMW or Mercedes product. Not a month goes by without a video comparison between an Audi Vs BMW Vs Mercedes. If it's not in the minds of the media, it is not in the minds of the customer.
Every Lexus product should have different models of performance oriented models. Much like Audi, BMW and Mercedes. This attracts the buyer into the showroom and most importantly, free media attention. Not a week goes by without an article about an upcoming Audi, BMW or Mercedes product. Not a month goes by without a video comparison between an Audi Vs BMW Vs Mercedes. If it's not in the minds of the media, it is not in the minds of the customer.
Very similar to what Steve LS has said.
And it was all down hill after that. Most of those sales were likely built off the reputation off the 430. Didn't take long for things to go south, even though everything went south with the financial crisis. But, when everything came back, the 460 didn't return to the top spot it inherited from the 430. And being the least expensive among the top competitors, it should have had an advantage to be back on top.
It amassed 44k on debut. Okay, it was cheap.
However, subsequent generations became much more expensive, and still outsold the pants off the Mercedes S Class.
In 2007, LS460 kicked 35k in its first full year USA.
Sure sales go south over the years.
Like Steve LS says, it is the lack of a full replacement that caused the 4th gen LS with an 11 year model cycle to spiral sales downwards.
And when the replacement came in late 2017 in 5LS, the styling was controversial, and the new sporty design with lowered roofline, lowered waist line, lower seating position, shallower cabin, shallower trunk, front mid-engine, shorter cabin lenght, firm suspension with compromized NVH - never attracts large customer bases.
Some people think 5LS needs a V8 to sell.
Jill thinks LS needs V12 to sell.
Lexus left the LS customer base.
True, the G90 ticks all the right boxes - almost.
However, why doesn't G90 truly sell like previous generations of Lexus LS's?
You know where G90 went wrong?
The styling!
It looks awful in my opinion. No wonder it is not selling despite ticking all the right boxes.
Back on topic, this is what worries me about the forthcoming Lexus LQ.
IMHO, I don't believe the styling is right.
I don't want to be rude, but President Akio may not have good taste for style.
I believe Lexus is heading in Acura's direction.
Styling is always very subjective, however it is quantitized and made objective by polling/surveys.
IMO, Lexus is capable of far better styling.
Look at the current RX and its hot sales!
I believe LQ should be an evolution of RX. Say a more rounded RX with fewer and softer lines?
LQ would be RWD-based with a longer wheelbase and a shorter front overhang...
04-18-20, 03:56 PM
#77
Lexus Fanatic
Its not possible for the G90 to sell as well as the LS does now, let alone as well as it did in its heyday. They don't have the market presence, dealer network, etc.
04-18-20, 04:10 PM
#78
Lexus Champion
The production LQ won't likely look very much like the concept version. I wouldn't write off the styling yet as I don't recall seeing a production version of it released.
04-18-20, 04:13 PM
#79
Pole Position
You can be rude, Lexus may not smell the coffee otherwise! It is not clear to me why the Asians don't copy the styling of the western world, chiefly, the Germans and Americans. When the Asians developed their automotive industries, they had no issues with copying (stealing) all other aspects of the west. They proceeded to excel beyond the west in reliability and engineering in many ways, but have been lagging in styling with some exceptions. I say it is time for the Asians to swallow their pride and blatantly rip-off some of the great design work coming out of Germany and America. It would be hard for the rest of the world to compete with a winning combination of great styling and engineering!
04-18-20, 04:30 PM
#80
Lexus Fanatic
When they did copy, people complained they were copycats. Now that they've found their own style, people say they should copy lol
04-18-20, 04:36 PM
#81
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
I actually like how the Japanese are making their own unique designs. The new LS obviously was designed for emerging markets and there is no doubt the design is distinctive. It took a long time for the Lexus LS500 to warm me over, but I now think it looks great. I realized all that at the last auto show. That said, I hope the LQ does not try to replicate a X7 or GLS. Rather see it be a large UX style design
04-18-20, 04:38 PM
#82
As a double owner of the current generation RX, I cannot disagree with you more on the styling. It's terrible, we put up with it because it ticks all of our other boxes so we'll. Our 2020 RX F Sport is marginally better looking than the Bas 2017 we had, but both are terrible.
04-18-20, 04:39 PM
#83
Lexus Fanatic
The design of the LS500 is great I agree, my issues are with the interior space packaging and the driving characteristics. If it had as much room as my car and rode as nice, I'd have one now. I sat in one again at the dealer while I was helping my friend buy an ES350...its just really unfortunate.
The X7 and GLS are extremely popular, why wouldn't Lexus want to emulate them?
In any event this looks like a Q8 style vehicle. Q8 is a great vehicle too.
The X7 and GLS are extremely popular, why wouldn't Lexus want to emulate them?
In any event this looks like a Q8 style vehicle. Q8 is a great vehicle too.
04-18-20, 05:18 PM
#84
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
As a double owner of the current generation RX, I cannot disagree with you more on the styling. It's terrible, we put up with it because it ticks all of our other boxes so we'll. Our 2020 RX F Sport is marginally better looking than the Bas 2017 we had, but both are terrible.
04-18-20, 05:23 PM
#85
I still remember how when the LS400 came out, half the European reviews were accusing it of being a knockoff S-Class. And when the 2G GS came out, others accused that of stealing the E-Class headlamps (even though they were from the SC).
04-18-20, 05:34 PM
#86
I actually like how the Japanese are making their own unique designs. The new LS obviously was designed for emerging markets and there is no doubt the design is distinctive. It took a long time for the Lexus LS500 to warm me over, but I now think it looks great. I realized all that at the last auto show. That said, I hope the LQ does not try to replicate a X7 or GLS. Rather see it be a large UX style design
Instead, consumers are switching their purchases over to the ageing S Class to be replaced in 2 months, and the ageing 7 Series to be replaced in 2 years.
04-18-20, 08:28 PM
#87
Pole Position
As a "for instance" of missing the boat, I offer up my SC430. It is a fantastic vehicle in so many ways, except styling. It's not horrible, but it's not all that and a bag a chips, like a $60-70K vehicle should be. Had Lexus pulled off making it as lust-worthy as a Porsche or a SL, it would have been a sales juggernaut! This is just one of many lost opportunities due to Toyota's inadequate design sensibilities.
My post will likely draw much disagreement from those who are in love with their Asian vehicles, but park it next to a BMW, MB, Porsche, or Audi and ask passers-bye to pick which is more to their liking, then get back to me. It's all subjective until you do the survey!
Just to be clear, I personally won't ever buy German unless I win the lottery!
04-18-20, 08:51 PM
#88
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
I recall the SC430. Nice car! I remember it being compared to the SL class and XLR at the time. The UZ was not as advanced as the MB engines or the Nothstar at the time. Last Lexus to have a tapedeck. Media began turning against Lexus during the SC430s run. I remember Motor Trend complaining that there were Lexus 
Logos in the back of the headrests. Unfair!
Logos in the back of the headrests. Unfair!Last edited by Toys4RJill; 04-18-20 at 08:55 PM.
04-18-20, 09:31 PM
#90
I recall the SC430. Nice car! I remember it being compared to the SL class and XLR at the time. The UZ was not as advanced as the MB engines or the Nothstar at the time. Last Lexus to have a tapedeck. Media began turning against Lexus during the SC430s run. I remember Motor Trend complaining that there were Lexus Logos in the back of the headrests. Unfair!
Logos in the back of the headrests. Unfair!