Toyota/Lexus getting rid of most V8s
04-27-20, 07:14 AM
#16
Lead Lap
have you experienced cylinder deactivating engines that are noticeably rough?
04-27-20, 07:54 AM
#17
Lexus Test Driver
Toyota / Lexus missed the whole V8 turbo phase over last 10years.
Now it spent a bunch of $$$ on a new V8 TT and can’t even put it in any of its models due to new environmental regs lol. This is what happens when you’re caught flat footed as it is for many other things they fell behind on.
Now inline 6s are all the rage while Lexus has 3.5 V6 turbo that seems like old tech and still only available in LS with 3yrs on market. If this is not waste of resources- I don’t know what is. These old farts in Japan sitting on the board or management must be asleep at the wheel.
Now it spent a bunch of $$$ on a new V8 TT and can’t even put it in any of its models due to new environmental regs lol. This is what happens when you’re caught flat footed as it is for many other things they fell behind on.
Now inline 6s are all the rage while Lexus has 3.5 V6 turbo that seems like old tech and still only available in LS with 3yrs on market. If this is not waste of resources- I don’t know what is. These old farts in Japan sitting on the board or management must be asleep at the wheel.
04-27-20, 08:20 AM
#18
Lexus Fanatic
04-27-20, 09:52 AM
#20
I also suspect that cylinder deactivation would be an ideal way of gaining efficiency if done cleverly so that the switching was never noticeable. The power of a V8 when needed, the efficiency of a 4 when at idle.
One thing I've never understood about a turbo engine--in order to prevent detonation at boost, a turbo engine needs to have a lower compression ratio. This lower ratio would imply that engine efficiency would be lower also, the opposite of an Atkinson engine's very high expansion ratio.
So perhaps the big drivers of the turbo movement are (a) size and weight reduction under the hood, (b) reduced fuel consumption at idle, and (c) lowered taxes from reduced displacement, a big deal in some countries.
As an aside I once had a Honda motorcycle that was the guinea pig for an aftermarket turbo kit. We needed to enlarge the piston eyebrows significantly in order to reduce the compression ratio. Otherwise the engine would probably self-destruct from detonation when under boost. Interesting project; the engine would do nothing under full throttle until 6,000rpm, then it felt like a giant hand was shoving you in the rear end all the way up to the (new) 12,000rpm redline (another reason for enlarging the piston eyebrows, which provided clearance in the event of a missed shift and valve float). Bike was a handful.
One thing I've never understood about a turbo engine--in order to prevent detonation at boost, a turbo engine needs to have a lower compression ratio. This lower ratio would imply that engine efficiency would be lower also, the opposite of an Atkinson engine's very high expansion ratio.
So perhaps the big drivers of the turbo movement are (a) size and weight reduction under the hood, (b) reduced fuel consumption at idle, and (c) lowered taxes from reduced displacement, a big deal in some countries.
As an aside I once had a Honda motorcycle that was the guinea pig for an aftermarket turbo kit. We needed to enlarge the piston eyebrows significantly in order to reduce the compression ratio. Otherwise the engine would probably self-destruct from detonation when under boost. Interesting project; the engine would do nothing under full throttle until 6,000rpm, then it felt like a giant hand was shoving you in the rear end all the way up to the (new) 12,000rpm redline (another reason for enlarging the piston eyebrows, which provided clearance in the event of a missed shift and valve float). Bike was a handful.
04-27-20, 10:55 AM
#21
Lead Lap
cylinder deactivation seemed is outdated with the rise of hybrids and BEVs.
The goal of both is to gain efficiency but in cylinder deactivation those 4 cylinders you shut off remain become deadweight you have to lug around (that before we get into the mechanical tidbits). Plus you can only use the deactivation in low load, constant speed situations
I think imho its smarter just to run a hybrid FI system as both propulsion systems can properly supplement each other at all stages of normal drivecycles (which i suspect is what Toyota is moving towards)
If you cant give me a proper normal V8 with all cylinders firing all the time, why bother?
The goal of both is to gain efficiency but in cylinder deactivation those 4 cylinders you shut off remain become deadweight you have to lug around (that before we get into the mechanical tidbits). Plus you can only use the deactivation in low load, constant speed situations
I think imho its smarter just to run a hybrid FI system as both propulsion systems can properly supplement each other at all stages of normal drivecycles (which i suspect is what Toyota is moving towards)
If you cant give me a proper normal V8 with all cylinders firing all the time, why bother?
04-27-20, 11:46 AM
#22
Lead Lap
as you can see from my vehicle choice I'm clearly a fan of V8s, but there's plenty of times when there's no benefit from the extra cylinders
04-27-20, 01:34 PM
#23
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
iTrader: (20)
). so the $3-5K diff. wasn't worth it to me.I know you've brought up lexus hp figures a lot and the lexus ls 3.5tt is obviously a powerful engine. but the 3.3tt in my g90 may be 'only' specified as 365hp but it's ANYTHING but slow or sluggish. I suspect it's underrated. it does have multiple modes and the sport mode makes the transmission and gas pedal responsiveness much more aggressive and it positively leaps off the line and forward. anything faster for me would be a waste.
so as much as I, like you, have a soft spot for v8's, when I test drove the ttv6 I knew right away, plenty smooth enough, PLENTY fast enough, a lot less $$ than the v8. sold.
04-27-20, 02:26 PM
#24
Lexus Fanatic
thanks. g90's with 5.0 often came with awd and just about always with an 'ultimate' package that has rear seat screens and all kinds of rear seat features which I would rarely EVER use (and not me, just some lucky slob sitting back there ). so the $3-5K diff. wasn't worth it to me.
I know you've brought up lexus hp figures a lot and the lexus ls 3.5tt is obviously a powerful engine. but the 3.3tt in my g90 may be 'only' specified as 365hp but it's ANYTHING but slow or sluggish. I suspect it's underrated. it does have multiple modes and the sport mode makes the transmission and gas pedal responsiveness much more aggressive and it positively leaps off the line and forward. anything faster for me would be a waste.
so as much as I, like you, have a soft spot for v8's, when I test drove the ttv6 I knew right away, plenty smooth enough, PLENTY fast enough, a lot less $$ than the v8. sold.
). so the $3-5K diff. wasn't worth it to me.I know you've brought up lexus hp figures a lot and the lexus ls 3.5tt is obviously a powerful engine. but the 3.3tt in my g90 may be 'only' specified as 365hp but it's ANYTHING but slow or sluggish. I suspect it's underrated. it does have multiple modes and the sport mode makes the transmission and gas pedal responsiveness much more aggressive and it positively leaps off the line and forward. anything faster for me would be a waste.
so as much as I, like you, have a soft spot for v8's, when I test drove the ttv6 I knew right away, plenty smooth enough, PLENTY fast enough, a lot less $$ than the v8. sold.
I only criticize the 3.3 V6tt Genesis because people like to crap on the 3.5tt by Lexus, but 416hp splits the difference between the S class V6tt or V8tt...it is a very good engine with some excellent tech....the operating costs of the V6tt by Lexus are superior to both Genesis V6/V8 as well as Mercedes Benz V6/V8.
Last edited by bitkahuna; 04-28-20 at 09:52 PM.
04-27-20, 02:45 PM
#25
Lead Lap
why do you want all 8 cylinders constantly firing when you're stopped at a light, in traffic, or just cruising along at slow speeds?
as you can see from my vehicle choice I'm clearly a fan of V8s, but there's plenty of times when there's no benefit from the extra cylinders
as you can see from my vehicle choice I'm clearly a fan of V8s, but there's plenty of times when there's no benefit from the extra cylinders
04-27-20, 03:17 PM
#26
Lead Lap
my boy's 2003 vic had no limiter though
04-27-20, 03:28 PM
#27
Lexus Test Driver
There is always new technology as far as cylinder deactivation; I believe Delphi is developing an engine management system that can shut off any number of cylinders at any time (usually it is only certain, and the same, cylinders that are turned off - which is what leads to some of the complications). But as always, it depends if the automakers want to pay for the new tech.
One thing I've never understood about a turbo engine--in order to prevent detonation at boost, a turbo engine needs to have a lower compression ratio. This lower ratio would imply that engine efficiency would be lower also, the opposite of an Atkinson engine's very high expansion ratio.
So perhaps the big drivers of the turbo movement are (a) size and weight reduction under the hood, (b) reduced fuel consumption at idle, and (c) lowered taxes from reduced displacement, a big deal in some countries.
So perhaps the big drivers of the turbo movement are (a) size and weight reduction under the hood, (b) reduced fuel consumption at idle, and (c) lowered taxes from reduced displacement, a big deal in some countries.
Last edited by gengar; 04-27-20 at 03:37 PM.
04-27-20, 03:30 PM
#28
Toyota / Lexus missed the whole V8 turbo phase over last 10years.
Now it spent a bunch of $$$ on a new V8 TT and can’t even put it in any of its models due to new environmental regs lol. This is what happens when you’re caught flat footed as it is for many other things they fell behind on.
Now it spent a bunch of $$$ on a new V8 TT and can’t even put it in any of its models due to new environmental regs lol. This is what happens when you’re caught flat footed as it is for many other things they fell behind on.
That is not correct, lol.
04-27-20, 03:31 PM
#29
Lead Lap
04-27-20, 03:32 PM
#30
Lexus Test Driver
Well, I think you just nailed it as to why manufacturers are offering turbos. it is the lower cost which allows them to offer more performance for the dollar.
I only criticize the 3.3 V6tt Genesis because people like to crap on the 3.5tt by Lexus, but 416hp splits the difference between the S class V6tt or V8tt...it is a very good engine with some excellent tech....the operating costs of the V6tt by Lexus are superior to both Genesis V6/V8 as well as Mercedes Benz V6/V8.
I only criticize the 3.3 V6tt Genesis because people like to crap on the 3.5tt by Lexus, but 416hp splits the difference between the S class V6tt or V8tt...it is a very good engine with some excellent tech....the operating costs of the V6tt by Lexus are superior to both Genesis V6/V8 as well as Mercedes Benz V6/V8.