Toyota/Lexus getting rid of most V8s
04-28-20, 03:50 PM
#46
Lexus Test Driver
Depends on how frequent that hybrid battery stays dormant. As you said the Cylinder tool requires very finite conditions to operate. Whereas a hybrid system can vary usage more frequently. Together, such as in the new yaris motor, the efficiency metric would increase. Cylinder deactivation by itself to me is pointless overcomplication due to the limited yield of return.
I don't know, I'd love to see data on the fuel flow of a big V8 at idle running 8, 6, 4, or even 2 cylinders. It seems to me that a big V8 running on 4 or 2 cylinders would have excellent fuel flow numbers, since the dormant cylinders wouldn't have pumping losses if the valves were shut and the only friction would be from the piston rings, but I don't know how much that is. Certainly Toyota could build an engine and computer that would make transitions virtually seamless. They certainly have a brilliant design in the hybrid drive of my RX. Buttery-smooth operation and the fuel economy of a diesel.
04-28-20, 04:15 PM
#47
Lexus Test Driver
The followup video to that (explaining Mazda's manifold and exhaust recirculation tech) is a useful demonstration of what I've been saying throughout this thread - the EPA/emissions test are obviously implicitly BS, and that creates a huge and completely improper incentive for manufacturers to design engines just to beat those tests while in many cases not providing the consumer any real world benefits.
04-28-20, 05:22 PM
#49
Lead Lap
04-28-20, 07:22 PM
#50
and where are turbo engines going? smaller displacement and higher boost. Yea like thats good for longevity. Smaller turboed engines dont work as well for certain vehicles especially trucks. Thats why practically everyone wants a V8 in a truck. Ecoboost mpg is worse than a V8 under towing because its constantly boosting
https://www.autoblog.com/2015/06/17/...-fuel-economy/
https://www.autoblog.com/2015/06/17/...-fuel-economy/
Owners of vehicles with diesel engines and manual transmissions appeared to be the biggest beneficiaries of discrepancies between estimated and actual fuel economy. Diesel owners reported 20-percent higher fuel economy than EPA ratings. Owners with cars equipped with manual transmissions enjoyed 17-percent higher real-world results.
Owners with turbocharged engines, on the other hand, were the biggest losers. Owners of turbocharged V6 engines reported fuel economy 9-percent lower than estimates, and owners of turbocharged four-cylinder engines reported fuel economy that was 4-percent lower than expected.
"If you just think about how those cars drive, a diesel has a ton of torque down low, so small throttle changes will get an immediate response," Nielsen told Autoblog. "And a turbo, conversely, does need to spool up. I can't help but wonder what role driving habits play in that."
Owners with turbocharged engines, on the other hand, were the biggest losers. Owners of turbocharged V6 engines reported fuel economy 9-percent lower than estimates, and owners of turbocharged four-cylinder engines reported fuel economy that was 4-percent lower than expected.
"If you just think about how those cars drive, a diesel has a ton of torque down low, so small throttle changes will get an immediate response," Nielsen told Autoblog. "And a turbo, conversely, does need to spool up. I can't help but wonder what role driving habits play in that."
04-28-20, 08:30 PM
#51
Lead Lap
and where are turbo engines going? smaller displacement and higher boost. Yea like thats good for longevity. Smaller turboed engines dont work as well for certain vehicles especially trucks. Thats why practically everyone wants a V8 in a truck. Ecoboost mpg is worse than a V8 under towing because its constantly boosting
https://www.autoblog.com/2015/06/17/...-fuel-economy/
https://www.autoblog.com/2015/06/17/...-fuel-economy/
Ford dialing back F-150 V8 production due to dwindling demand
https://www.autoblog.com/2019/05/06/...ndling-demand/
The Dearborn automaker is reportedly dialing back production of its 5.0-liter V8 due to dwindling demand as buyers are opting more for the EcoBoost V6 engines. Automotive News Canada spoke with Ford Canada's spokesman Matthew Drennan-Scace and John D'Agnolo, president of Unifor Local 200, which represents workers at Ford's Windsor Engine Plant in Canada.
2 ecoboosts
1 na V6
1 Ecoboost hybrid
1 v8
04-28-20, 08:53 PM
#52
ford gave up on their V8s and stopped marketting them, not because people demanded a turbo engine. The Ford GT and Raptor is the dead giveaway, they heavily pushed Ecoboost. It should be called Eco or Boost, you can only pick one. Imagine how much more desireable both of those vehicles would be if it had a V8. People are going to dump their Raptors when the Ram TRX comes out
04-28-20, 09:52 PM
#53
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
iTrader: (20)
I only criticize the 3.3 V6tt Genesis because people like to crap on the 3.5tt by Lexus, but 416hp splits the difference between the S class V6tt or V8tt...it is a very good engine with some excellent tech....the operating costs of the V6tt by Lexus are superior to both Genesis V6/V8 as well as Mercedes Benz V6/V8.
04-28-20, 10:01 PM
#54
Lead Lap
ford gave up on their V8s and stopped marketting them, not because people demanded a turbo engine. The Ford GT and Raptor is the dead giveaway, they heavily pushed Ecoboost. It should be called Eco or Boost, you can only pick one. Imagine how much more desireable both of those vehicles would be if it had a V8. People are going to dump their Raptors when the Ram TRX comes out
All-New Ford 7.3-Liter V8 Set to Drive Best-in-Class Gas Power and Torque for Heavy-Duty Pickups
https://media.ford.com/content/fordm...ty-pickup.html
I think the raptor is doing well for its segment, and if the TRX is a solid FCA competitor that actually is more then just vaporware we might see some changes but until then its ECOOOOO and BOOST for the foreseeable future.
04-29-20, 07:11 AM
#56
more stuff to break, all else being equal a turbo engine is inherently less reliable than a N/A engine. Like to see a turbo engine go to 1 million miles like the LS400 did without major overhauls and rebuilds. If turbos had no drawbacks then they would be standard on every single engine.
Gas engine was needed in the 250 lineup, the powerstroke diesel is a $9-10k option and expensive diesel maintenance. Some people want a HD size truck but do occasional light towing and dont need the diesel. MPG isnt an issue because you can buy a hell of a lot of gas with $9-10k. Chevy/GM and Ram have gas options in their 2500 trucks
There is rumor the final raptor will use the GT500 engine, if that ever appeared, its an embarrassing admission and backpedal for Ford.
I beg to differ, as they developed the "GodZilla 7.3" for their 2019 HD level of trucks
https://media.ford.com/content/fordm...ty-pickup.html
I think the raptor is doing well for its segment, and if the TRX is a solid FCA competitor that actually is more then just vaporware we might see some changes but until then its ECOOOOO and BOOST for the foreseeable future.
All-New Ford 7.3-Liter V8 Set to Drive Best-in-Class Gas Power and Torque for Heavy-Duty Pickups
https://media.ford.com/content/fordm...ty-pickup.html
I think the raptor is doing well for its segment, and if the TRX is a solid FCA competitor that actually is more then just vaporware we might see some changes but until then its ECOOOOO and BOOST for the foreseeable future.
There is rumor the final raptor will use the GT500 engine, if that ever appeared, its an embarrassing admission and backpedal for Ford.
04-29-20, 11:06 AM
#57
Toyota / Lexus missed the whole V8 turbo phase over last 10years.
Now it spent a bunch of $$$ on a new V8 TT and can’t even put it in any of its models due to new environmental regs lol. This is what happens when you’re caught flat footed as it is for many other things they fell behind on.
Now inline 6s are all the rage while Lexus has 3.5 V6 turbo that seems like old tech and still only available in LS with 3yrs on market. If this is not waste of resources- I don’t know what is. These old farts in Japan sitting on the board or management must be asleep at the wheel.
Now it spent a bunch of $$$ on a new V8 TT and can’t even put it in any of its models due to new environmental regs lol. This is what happens when you’re caught flat footed as it is for many other things they fell behind on.
Now inline 6s are all the rage while Lexus has 3.5 V6 turbo that seems like old tech and still only available in LS with 3yrs on market. If this is not waste of resources- I don’t know what is. These old farts in Japan sitting on the board or management must be asleep at the wheel.
Toyota is deathly scared of bringing their turbo Diesel engines into the USA. If they are as reliable as their other engines, they should have nothing to worry about. I would buy one! A turbo diesel V-6 or V-8 is wonderful in a large truck or SUV. Everyone is scared of the mean ole EPA. Automakers are up against the wall right now with horrible sales figures, due to the virus. We will soon start to see many models dropped to reduce overhead across the board. Manufacturers that are diverse will survive. Those that have been resting on their laurels, will be forced to scramble just to sell anything. Lexus looks like one of those companies...
04-29-20, 01:23 PM
#59
Toyota hybrids = reliable, but not really worth the extra cost of a gasoline engine. My RX 450h is a huge disappointment & does NOT get anywhere near the claimed mpg.
04-29-20, 01:56 PM
#60
Pole Position
I drive a V6 car with VCM every single day. My commute is 90% highway. I'm getting gas mileage figures that are unheard of for this make and model. It is very smooth, and nearly imperceptible when it transitions from 6 to 3 cylinders.