Toys4RJill

I was following the world launch. There is supposed to be a S450 and S500 with different I6 motors with 369/439hp. And I recall that there was a time when the S class was available as a S430 or S500 with two different V8 options whereas Lexus always just had one on the smaller sized scale. Lexus really is no different today compared to where they were on the past with the LS as it only really competed on the lower end of the S class range. When the previous gen S class was released, the LS460 was still quite always behind the S550 at the time...

Motorola

Genesis designed the G80 platform for full-on electrification, so they don't need a V8 for it. The Germans are heading in the same direction. Can't say the same about the LS.

sdls

Can't say that I disagree.

UDel

Electrification or hybrid does not replace a V8, look what happened with the 4th Gen Lexus GS when they replaced the V8 with a hybrid, nobody bought the hybrid and the mystique and desirability of the GS kind of went away when its engine lineup was not all that impressive unless you went for a 90K GS-F.

I don't think the new G80 is going to sell all that well, it is priced too high, you are stuck with a 4cyl as a base model, 6 cylinder is really expensive, and no V8 option.

LS500 is just a big fail to me, odd Nissan sedan like styling that doesn't work, proportions are off. I saw one over the weekend and just shook my head at the poor styling, interior is bland with a annoying interface, and no V8. I knew it wouldn't sell just looking at it and the V8 going away. I don't find its styling the least bit exciting.

Motorola

A bit of a stretch to put hybrids and EVs in the same sentence. A hybrid GS is nothing like a Tesla Model S. And like it or not, the next generation of ultra-performance vehicle variants like the M5 will be pure electric.

All of those are segment norms. A turbo 4-cylinder E-Class or 5 Series or A6 could all outrun a V6 GS 350. Pretty sure the new G80 can do the same. And you aren't going to be getting a V8 unless you move to the current highest trim performance variants from a German brand, all of which easily cost far more than a GS-F. Get with the times.

Toys4RJill

LS was definitely designed for FCEV. I have no doubt Toyota can add a battery EV.

EZZ

The V8 is more appropriate in a luxury car due to smoothness and lack of lag. The turbo 6 cylinders have a different characteristic thats more appropriate for sports oriented vehicles. I've had my fair share of turbo I6 BMWs and they have this slight lag at the beginning..not horrible but the V8s are much more responsive from a stop. Other than that though, the performance advantage comes with forced induction. Lexus powertrains are behind because they really adapted too late to the FI trend. Seems like they are behind the ball on the EV trend too..,

JDR76

I've seen others state this on here but I really don't see that.

The Audi A6 2.0T test results I found ranged from 6.0 to 6.1 seconds to 60. link
The MB E300 test results I found were 6.5 to 6.6 seconds to 60. link
The BMW 530i test results range from 6.0 to 6.2seconds to 60. link
The Lexus GS350 test results range from 5.4 to 5.9 seconds to 60. link

I am being too lazy to look up other test parameters, like 5-60mph and quarter mile, so I am not sure if that's what you are referring to.

I always thought the GS350 fell in between the lower and upper engine options of the others. It's more fleet to 60 than the competition's turbo 4s, but not as quick as their forced induction 6 cylinders.

Motorola

Of course, V8's are inherently smoother engines than any turbo 6. But naturally aspirated V8's are no longer a match for modern turbo 6's in performance. The modern TT V8's you see in BMW's and the like would be more equivalent to V10's from a decade ago.

And as smooth as V8s are, they are no match for the smoothness and power of an EV powertrain. The only advantage a V8 has over an EV is the aural experience and general feeling of being one with the vehicle- none of which matter in the slightest to a luxury car driver.

The problem with the LS isn't that it has a V6 instead of a V8, but that it doesn't offer anything, EV or V8 or otherwise, to match the German flagships in their upper trims.

SW17LS

As a consumer for these vehicles, you gotta have a V8. When you drive the V8 versions of these cars, they just feel the way you want a flagship sedan to feel. No matter how powerful, the 6 cyl variants just aren't as satisfying. Nobody is going to drive a V8 S Class, 7 Series or A8 and have any interest whatsoever in the LS500 afterward. The powertrain experience of those cars is on another level.

I have long said that they sell more S450s and 740s than they do S560s and 750s, I was actually quite wrong. In talking to dealers the V8 versions outsell the 6 cyl versions 2 to 1. One dealer I talked to doesn't even stock S450s.

So, I understand why Lexus would have a standard V6, but they have to have a V8 if they want to seriously be considered a competitor in this class. If the LS had a V8, I would very likely get another one despite the downsides of the vehicle's architecture. Refresh LS500 is coming, supposed to help in ride and quietness and I have considered waiting, but what keeps me from doing that is it still doesn't have a V8...and I want a V8...so that automatically disqualifies the LS.

mmarshall

I used to be like that (quite rigid in my automotive thinking), but one thing I have learned through the years is that you never know what your circumstances, or driving-needs, will be from one vehicle to the next.

I never thought I'd ever be driving a Subaru...I had an AWD Outback for almost 6 years.

I never thought I'd drive a Buick compact after the big Buick I had in college...I had an Opel-sourced Buick Verano for some five years.

I never thought I'd ever like a steel-bodied Saturn after the superb thermoplastic-body panels were dropped.....though I didn't own one, I liked the Aura, primarily because of it being so similar to the Chevy Malibu of that period, which I also had a very high opinion of.

I never thought I'd have a sports-sedan......I had a 1Gen IS300, although I'll admit I got it with the most comfortable-riding wheels and tires possible at the time.

And (LOL) I never thought I'd be driving a small crossover, and............



So my point is..........never say never.

Motorola

From the manufacturers' sites:








The only one that goes over 6 seconds is the A6 at 6.1s, and it's FWD-biased. The GS is faster than an A6 at 5.7-5.8s (Lexus's own site estimate), about as fast as the Bimmer, and slower than the Merc. So while the 4-cylinder Germans aren't all faster, the GS 350 with its V6 has no significant performance advantage over them.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

drivetrains vary though and reviews of my G90 show the ttv6 has LESS lag (or rather is MORE responsive) from a stop, than the V8. I've not driven a V8 G90 although i'd like to. I don't need to take off like a rabbit so i'm sure the 420HP is V8 is plenty adequate for my driving. I'm not like you and the Tesla rush addiction.

Great post, and yup!
my goodness, your next car will likely have a push button shifter.

EZZ

Its strange that the V8 is less responsive than a twin turbo V6. Just bad tuning on Hyundai's end. I admit, I love the rush but I no longer floor it as often because it makes me nauseous. There's only so much 3s 0-60 launches a body can take

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

Not to mention replacing the tires gets expensive.