2021 Mercedes S-Class (W223)
10-31-20, 02:33 PM
#421
Cars are disposable now, with all that complexity they are good for a 3 year lease, and then maybe 3 more years before they become "endless money pits" (® Scotty Kilmer). I'm not saying if its good or bad, just merely stating the obvious. So if I'm only going to lease for three years, I want all the latest tech and toys.
However this new S class looks awful inside and out, and its infotainment and general user control tech seems like a giant clusterpluck.
However this new S class looks awful inside and out, and its infotainment and general user control tech seems like a giant clusterpluck.
10-31-20, 02:35 PM
#422
Lexus Champion
Cars are disposable now, with all that complexity they are good for a 3 year lease, and then maybe 3 more years before they become "endless money pits" (® Scotty Kilmer). I'm not saying if its good or bad, just merely stating the obvious. So if I'm only going to lease for three years, I want all the latest tech and toys.
However this new S class looks awful inside and out, and its infotainment and general user control tech seems like a giant clusterpluck.
However this new S class looks awful inside and out, and its infotainment and general user control tech seems like a giant clusterpluck.
Now cars are being designed to be jettisoned after a measly 3 year lease?
10-31-20, 02:39 PM
#423
Car and Driver 40k mile test:
For the sake of science, we spec'd the pricier engine, and we have to say, even at today's discounted premium, we wouldn't spend our own money on the electrically assisted Hemi. We averaged an underwhelming 14 mpg, a number that we matched during two weeks in a Ram without eTorque. (Our long-termer's fuel economy rises to 15 mpg if we omit our towing.) More disappointing than its performance, the 48-volt system proved just finicky enough for us to lose faith in it. The vast majority of the time, eTorque works exactly as intended, smoothing engine restarts and increasing the amount of time the V-8 is shut down in traffic. But the system periodically stumbled when refiring, and on a handful of occasions, it stalled the engine right as we were expecting the truck to accelerate. This rough behavior was sometimes accompanied by a warning light and an error message indicating that the system wasn't charging properly. And when an editor woke to find the truck's electrical system dead one morning, we couldn't shake the feeling that a leaky 48-volt system was the culprit. We never got an answer, as the Ram recovered with a jump-start and the dealer never identified the cause of the drained battery, the rough restarts, or the intermittent stalling.
Pass. At least on a FCA product.
For the sake of science, we spec'd the pricier engine, and we have to say, even at today's discounted premium, we wouldn't spend our own money on the electrically assisted Hemi. We averaged an underwhelming 14 mpg, a number that we matched during two weeks in a Ram without eTorque. (Our long-termer's fuel economy rises to 15 mpg if we omit our towing.) More disappointing than its performance, the 48-volt system proved just finicky enough for us to lose faith in it. The vast majority of the time, eTorque works exactly as intended, smoothing engine restarts and increasing the amount of time the V-8 is shut down in traffic. But the system periodically stumbled when refiring, and on a handful of occasions, it stalled the engine right as we were expecting the truck to accelerate. This rough behavior was sometimes accompanied by a warning light and an error message indicating that the system wasn't charging properly. And when an editor woke to find the truck's electrical system dead one morning, we couldn't shake the feeling that a leaky 48-volt system was the culprit. We never got an answer, as the Ram recovered with a jump-start and the dealer never identified the cause of the drained battery, the rough restarts, or the intermittent stalling.
Pass. At least on a FCA product.
10-31-20, 02:43 PM
#424
Yes, and I am still at a loss what happens to all those off lease cars. You come to major cities, and its all brand new fancy cars that are being leased. But you go to rural areas, and its either new cheap American cars, or older American cars. There aren't many 5-10 year old cars on the roads anywhere, especially luxury brands.
10-31-20, 03:22 PM
#425
That has to be a joke. I don't even think the exterior looks that good, they took the current one and made it worse. The interior is absolutely atrocious, it is horrible, it looks like a terrible place to spend time in and is now fighting the Audi A8 for the worst interior in class, I prefer the LS500 interior to the new S class interior and I don't like the LS500 interior at all. I hoped the finished product would be better, what is with all that shiny glossy wood/finishes, just a giant eyesore. What are luxury automakers doing to their interiors? With the new S class they are copying the absolute worst auto interiors, Tesla's out for some stupid reason. Like I said before that interior looks like a unfinished cheaply designed demonstrator interior you see to audio equipment, it is so cold, bland, and does not even look luxurious. At least they kept the V8 engines, the way things are going we are lucky it didn't only have a 4 cylinder hybrid or EV power train.
Bentley is definitely king of luxury, they didn't abandon real luxury and opulence for sci fi tech junkies who aren't Mercs. or flagship cars buyers.
I have a feeling the value for the current S class is going to hold and there will be no rush to get into this aside from the gotta have the newest thing buyers but who knows, the masses buy so many ugly CUV's they may go for this too, it is not like they really have any other good choice in the flagship sedan range now unless they pay a fortune for a Bentley or Rolls Royce.
Bentley is definitely king of luxury, they didn't abandon real luxury and opulence for sci fi tech junkies who aren't Mercs. or flagship cars buyers.
I have a feeling the value for the current S class is going to hold and there will be no rush to get into this aside from the gotta have the newest thing buyers but who knows, the masses buy so many ugly CUV's they may go for this too, it is not like they really have any other good choice in the flagship sedan range now unless they pay a fortune for a Bentley or Rolls Royce.
I believe the best interiors now are actually Genesis, Cadillac and Lincoln!
10-31-20, 06:09 PM
#426
Lexus Fanatic
At first, in the early-mid 1990s, it was not particularly noticeable (particularly on the C-class), but, a time went on, one could clearly tell that the three-pointed star was not what it once was.
However, in defense of recent S-Class sedans, they do have some excellent engineering in the chassis/suspension/sound-insulation departments, and have succeeded in becoming one of the world's best luxury cars in refinement/road-manners, if not in reliability.
Last edited by mmarshall; 10-31-20 at 06:13 PM.
10-31-20, 07:44 PM
#427
Lexus Test Driver
Yes, and I am still at a loss what happens to all those off lease cars. You come to major cities, and its all brand new fancy cars that are being leased. But you go to rural areas, and its either new cheap American cars, or older American cars. There aren't many 5-10 year old cars on the roads anywhere, especially luxury brands.
11-01-20, 05:48 AM
#428
Super Moderator
11-01-20, 12:08 PM
#429
Lexus Fanatic
I do believe Cadillac did have air suspensions in the 1970s....all the best stuff was in Cadillac for a while
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 11-01-20 at 12:14 PM.
11-02-20, 08:25 AM
#430
Lexus Fanatic
#2, If we talk about 40 years ago, those MB S Classes were very simple, austere and didnt have much in the way of creature comforts or technology to go wrong.
Its a tradeoff, when you pack something with technology and features, long term reliability and usability is going to go down, but thats what consumers want. If you made an S Class today like one made 40 years ago with no features or technology, very few comforts, hard interior materials that last forever nobody would buy it.
11-02-20, 08:46 AM
#431
Lexus Champion
Exactly lol. Its fear of change, nothing more.
#1, S Classes of 30 years ago were a reliability nightmare. The W140 S Classes are NOTORIOUS for electrical problems, suspension problems, and that got much, much worse with the W220.
#2, If we talk about 40 years ago, those MB S Classes were very simple, austere and didnt have much in the way of creature comforts or technology to go wrong.
Its a tradeoff, when you pack something with technology and features, long term reliability and usability is going to go down, but thats what consumers want. If you made an S Class today like one made 40 years ago with no features or technology, very few comforts, hard interior materials that last forever nobody would buy it.
#1, S Classes of 30 years ago were a reliability nightmare. The W140 S Classes are NOTORIOUS for electrical problems, suspension problems, and that got much, much worse with the W220.
#2, If we talk about 40 years ago, those MB S Classes were very simple, austere and didnt have much in the way of creature comforts or technology to go wrong.
Its a tradeoff, when you pack something with technology and features, long term reliability and usability is going to go down, but thats what consumers want. If you made an S Class today like one made 40 years ago with no features or technology, very few comforts, hard interior materials that last forever nobody would buy it.
And of course cars are different now. I just am disappointed that these high end cars are seemingly designed to lease and then toss. Not everybody does that, or wants to do that. I don’t want a lease payment for my whole life, I like to pay things off and keep them. My pristine LS430 with literally zero wrong with it is a good example. It’s got more woodgrain and softer leather than most luxury cars sold today.
11-02-20, 10:29 AM
#432
Lexus Fanatic
And of course cars are different now. I just am disappointed that these high end cars are seemingly designed to lease and then toss. Not everybody does that, or wants to do that. I don’t want a lease payment for my whole life, I like to pay things off and keep them. My pristine LS430 with literally zero wrong with it is a good example. It’s got more woodgrain and softer leather than most luxury cars sold today.
11-02-20, 11:04 AM
#433
Lexus Champion
People who buy German usually do not car about long-term reliability in the same way as those who buy Lexus. That said, the UZ engine was around since 1990...I bet most of the suspension parts where from the previous LS as well It is not much different today in how Lexus has older powertrains....Lexus doesn't update as frequently as the Germans do
11-02-20, 11:35 AM
#434
It's a trade off, and even the W126 and W220 are probably reliable by todays standards. Sure, the air suspensions are prone to fail, but that is true for air suspension in general, no matter who the manufacturer is, and there are some electronic gremlins due to short life expectancy of capacitors used in circuit boards back in those days - but the engines were solid.
Todays turbo charged engines, with lightweight rotating assemblies, carbon build up due to DI, and ultra thin oils, are mostly purposed to return good fuel economy and performance during the 3 year lease term, and after 40-50k they are pretty much done.
Just lease, and you don't have to worry about any of this.
Todays turbo charged engines, with lightweight rotating assemblies, carbon build up due to DI, and ultra thin oils, are mostly purposed to return good fuel economy and performance during the 3 year lease term, and after 40-50k they are pretty much done.
Just lease, and you don't have to worry about any of this.
11-02-20, 11:58 AM
#435
Lexus Champion
It's a trade off, and even the W126 and W220 are probably reliable by todays standards. Sure, the air suspensions are prone to fail, but that is true for air suspension in general, no matter who the manufacturer is, and there are some electronic gremlins due to short life expectancy of capacitors used in circuit boards back in those days - but the engines were solid.
Todays turbo charged engines, with lightweight rotating assemblies, carbon build up due to DI, and ultra thin oils, are mostly purposed to return good fuel economy and performance during the 3 year lease term, and after 40-50k they are pretty much done.
Just lease, and you don't have to worry about any of this.
Todays turbo charged engines, with lightweight rotating assemblies, carbon build up due to DI, and ultra thin oils, are mostly purposed to return good fuel economy and performance during the 3 year lease term, and after 40-50k they are pretty much done.
Just lease, and you don't have to worry about any of this.
However I personally wouldn’t call a W220 reliable by any standards but I do see some still on the road. Some look great, some are junkers. If people want to pay the cost to maintain high end Mercedes, more power to them.
I always see this old lady around my end driving a 2003ish white absolutely pristine CL500, I’ve seen the car pull out of the mansion on the lake they live in..I doubt maintenance and repairs are a problem. Some people just like to hang onto cars, myself obviously included.