tex2670

The RL/RLX has been uncompetitive in its class LONG before the move for companies to slash sedans.

pbm317

Motorola is correct. the CT6 was between the midsize and flagship/executive class of sedans. It might be where Short Wheel Base Fullsize sedans were in the past, but U.S. Market has largely gone away with that sliver.

CTS was squarely midsize, sized right alongside the 5 series, E-class etc. Large part of the downfall was that it tried to price right alongside them as well.



As for the demise of the RLX, good riddance. The "World's Best (and most overpriced) Honda Accord" will go to the grave. Truly hope the TLX has what it takes to make a mark in the industry.

mmarshall

Fine.....but Wikipedia disagrees wth you.


Although it is true that people just aren't being many larger sedans any more, I've driven both, and, from what I could tell, the TLX was a lot more than just an overpriced Accord. I could tell the difference in road manners in just the first two blocks. And Accords, at least in the American market, do not offer AWD as an option.

pbm317

Ah yes, Wikipedia, the holy grail of automotive classification and technology. Give me a break. Please know when you're incorrect on competitive segmenting.

mmarshall

Give you a break? I never said it was a Holy Grail. In fact, there probably is no Holy Grail when it comes to questions like that...I only posted it as one source. For government regulations, the EPA and DOT, in the past, have at least partially-determined what what are considered vehicle-classification sizes, based on interior volume, not exterior vehicle-size. I never liked that system myself, but was (and is) the law.

Anyhow, as far as I'm concerned, enough of semantics...back to the RLX. Nice sedan...a shame that so few people bought it, but that seems to be the case with a number of its competitors as well. I strongly suspect that the next one to disappear in this class will be the Kia Cadanza.

Motorola

Cadenza just got a refresh for this year, so it'll stick around for at least another 3. Same with the Stinger.

Now the Kia K900, I'm surprised HMG hasn't already killed that off yet with Genesis. For all intents and purposes, it's a short wheelbase Genesis G90. It supposedly sells well in Korea, but in the US the numbers are a joke on par with the VW Phaeton.

There is something funny about the Koreans competing with themselves in another segment where there's only a single living entry outside of Europe (the LS).

mmarshall

Agreed that the K900 is an even better candidate for the chopping block.....thanks for bringing that up. But, a mid-cycle refresh for the Cadenza does not necessary prevent the ax from falling.

Look at the latest version of the Buick Lacrosse, for example (I have one). Buick introduced it in 2017, gave it refreshes for both the 2018 and 2019 model-years, and then dropped it for 2020.

Motorola

You say that, but look how long Kia has kept the K900 in this country despite its double digits sales. Also, GM and Ford's recent willingness to cancel the majority if not their entire sedan lineup is reactionary and not very indicative of standard procedures for refreshes.

LexBob2

Kia could drop the Cadenza and K900 in the US market and keep them in their home market as well as others where they sell better. Last year they only sold about 32 K900's per month from selected dealerships and about 135 Cadenzas per month. Both models could just quietly go away. Kind of a shame as they both seem to be very good cars in their segments.

mmarshall

Well, what I said was that mid-cycle (or lack of mid-cycle) refreshes were not necessarily a sign of axing either way. And, with me, you're preaching to the choir about the GM/Ford sedan-cancellations....I thought both actions were dumb, despite the lack of sales. If and when sedans sales start climbing again (the crossover/SUV craze won't necessarily last forever), they won't be ready for the sedan-resurgence. We're also likely to see demand for electric sedans replace that for gas-powered ones.....the Tesla Model 3 proved that.

geko29

Agreed. Even the original RL, while a nice car, was completely out of its league, totally uncompetitive in the segment it was supposed to be part of. Literally every single competitor in that entire class was on a dedicated RWD platform with an available V8 (and a few had V12s), while the RL was a stretched and reworked Accord with FWD and an anemic V6.

mmarshall

I sampled all three generations of them on the road. The soft-driving 1-Gen RL was essentially a Japanese FWD Buick LeSabre/Lucerne....personally, it drove the way I liked, but did not appeal to a large number of people. Neither did the 2Gen model (which many people complained looked too much like a slightly larger Accord), but it was built like a tank, used superb materials inside and out, and came standard with the excellent SH-AWD system. The 3Gen was a double-disappointment...though a nice, easy-driving sedan more or less like the first one, it lost some build-solidness/material-quality and the standard AWD system.

tex2670

I just edited the Wikipedia page to say that the CT6 is a pickup truck. Wikipedia is always a suspect source of information.

Vladi

RLX Hybrid is a seriously good driving vehicle. I rate it above GS450h the way it drives. Everything else about the car inside is so 2003. Recent exterior facelift has made it acceptable looking.

mmarshall

Agree with you. For years, this car has been underrated.