Wanting a car have some dynamics is not “wanting it to be a sports car”. A car should be satisfying to drive and have and enjoy in some way...

 

I was using the term as a figure of speech, not necessarily literally. But, in a ultimate sense, yes, IMO, too many reviewers complain about vehicles being too "vanilla", when vanilla clearly sells. That's where the auto-press is often at odds with much of the general buying-public themselves.

 

Auto reviewers are enthusiasts, and what they write they write for enthusiasts. I wouldn't say "vanilla sells" I would say that most drivers don't care about a car being "good" so long as it has the right badge and brand. The Venza is only going to be bought by Toyota loyalists who buy it because its a Toyota and perceived quality and resale and reliability, etc. Nobody is going to buy it because they love it.

I drive a car that could be called vanilla easily. What I as an enthusiast appreciate in a car is that it does something extremely well. My car is very good and being refined and solid and incredibly quiet and smooth. What I don't like are cars that aren't particularly good at anything, and the Venza and most current Toyota and Lexus models fit that description. That doesnt mean I want them to be "sports cars" I just want them to be excellent in some way, which they aren't.

 

Vanilla absolutely sells. Vanilla is what most people want.. And until most recently, Toyota and especially Lexus were perceived as bland and boring.....current Toyota and more so Lexus has become more stylish which includes more passion and better designs...with TNGA the chassis dynamics are better in handling and are more solid...gone are the days of boring (boring is still there underneath). Included with these new Toyota and Lexus models is what Toyota also always had, class leading fuel economies, excellent engine tech (dynamic force engines are second to none and multi-stage as well as 10 speed transmissions) now with hybrid across most of the range...

New Venza dials in back a bit and plays it safe with styling and road feel and moves to the boring side a meter (but the TNGA dynamics are still there if Toyota wanted to make a SE or sport model)....has lots of standard/optional features such as power tilt/tele steering, dumb frosty roof panel, and wireless charging (that really stinks in our new Avalon) but it has 40/37 mpg, its a 2-row, and it is a little more premium than the RAV4 and for those who don't want a 3row.....Toyota will sell every single model they import from Japan with minimal discounts...

I can't think of any other 2-row only, hybrid only model on the market...Toyota has this segment all to themselves.

 

I generally agree with what you are saying, however, Toyota/Lexus models, especially those built in Japan, are excellent in quality and reliability, which is why I buy them. My wife's ES 350 is almost ten-years-old and not one thing has failed on it. I find this astonishing! The rotors warped on the ES at 35K, but I blame my wife for riding the brakes. We had an Avalon before the ES and it had its share of issues.

We want to replace the ES in the near future, and I'm considering the Venza. My wife doesn't like SUV's or crossovers, but the sedan offerings by Toyota/Lexus leave much to be desired these days. Too, she is hoping to get a 360 degree camera in our next purchase, and the Venza has this. Otherwise, it's going to be a tough assignment to find her a Toyota/Lexus sedan offering, new or used, not to exceed $50K, that has a 360 degree camera.

Steve, do you know if many, or any, of the LS 460's were optioned with the 360 camera? Was this a special order item only? I've only talked to one Lexus salesperson so far, and he wasn't very well informed.

 

I can't say I disagree with you....I'm somewhat of a "Vanilla Enthusiast" myself, at least in the sense that sports cars were never really my thing. I'm not against occasionally taking something like a Miata or 370Z out for some fun in the twisties (I've done it enough on test-drives...also so that I don't completely forget how to drive a 3-pedal manual)...but I certainly wouldn't want to live with that noise, vibration, cramped cabin, and rough ride every day. Look at davyjordl, for example....he had a 124 Spyder (a Miata with an Italian engine)...and he actually traded it off because he found the lack of refinement getting a long in the tooth.

With the Lacrosse and Encore GX, for several reasons, you could say that I'm exchanging a large piece of vanilla for a smaller, higher-stance, easier-to-park, more versatile piece of vanilla LOL.

Well, from the review bit posted, seems like the Venza excels in comfort...and, probably, reliability.

 

Um....fuel efficiency?

 

Perhaps, but most hybrids that size have good fuel efficiency. One probably can't give the Venza any awards for that.

 

Are you kidding? No other two row crossover has this type of fuel efficiency...at least I cant think of one.

 

Check the figures for the Kia Niro, which also is a crossover with two rows. 51/46...49 Combined.

 

not quite the same price point or segment. . But yeah you are right.

 

It depends on what you consider "quality". I don't find any of these Toyota vehicles to feel high quality, they feel cheap to me which is one of my issues. Its getting better though, but their competitors all have a more expensive feel IMO. As for reliability, thats overstated in the modern era.

The fact that you are only considering Toyota/Lexus products proves my point, buyers for this vehicle are Toyota loyalists that aren't really looking outside the brand. If you would look outside the brand you would find there are a lot of great vehicles that will get you the features you want, with more upscale quality feel and will be just as reliable.

None. You have to go to the LS500 to get a 360 camera. All LS460s have backup cameras. 360 camera tech with Toyota is way, way behind. Only worse company in terms of that feature is Honda.

I don't think you are a "vanilla enthusiast". Look at what you've had, you've had some non-vanilla cars. Buick is a brand that you're drawn to largely because of what it represents to you, which is not unlike me and Lexus. Your Lacrosse was the big Buick you always wanted.

Thats the point "vanilla" doesnt sell, people don't buy cars because they are vanilla, they buy cars for other reason and don't care that they're "vanilla".

I doubt it excels in comfort at all compared to other similar vehicles.

 

Reading thru these posts makes me wonder why theses motor head enthusiasts come on here to trash anything Toyota/Lexus.

The new Venza is beautifully styled with smooth lines. There are no large grills, fighter jet scoops, or carved body metal. It has a well designed interior with all the bells and whistles one could want. It a hybrid that brings excellent fuel economy. I wouldn't call it Vanilla, I call it a 2 roll CUV for the masses. No Motorheads need apply.

 

Personally, I don’t think there’s anything beautiful about it. And there isn’t anything in any of the reviews that would lead me to believe it excels anywhere but fuel economy.

I don’t think anybody is bashing it, to me it’s just an example of what’s currently afflicting Toyota. This is just the perfect example of a driving appliance. If Whirlpool made a car, this would be it. Other companies are able to design cars with flair and driving appeal that also make good everyday appliances.

I wouldn’t consider myself a “motor head enthusiast” at all. You’re talking to a guy about to go get his Chrysler minivan washed. That Chrysler minivan though, it’s more than just an appliance. It has care in its design and materials, drives great, feels special behind the wheel. Compare to a Sienna that clearly was just designed to be transport.

 

Great points.