oldcajun

My 2019 ES350 has the 360 degree camera. It is a UL and the sticker price was $50,900.

sdls

Maybe I’m out of touch with new car prices, but that is one pretty large number you wrote down.
(I know that you meant to assuage Wilson2000s concern with this price being an encouragement, but I’m still surprised)

SW17LS

$50k is the new $40k.

My Pacifica had an MSRP of $52k

mmarshall

I agree with you on the 360-view. I'm becoming sold on it....see my comments below.



I've had it for several years now (into the fourth year), and, yes, I greatly enjoyed having it, except for the quirky joystick-shift-patter, occasional transmission hiccups, and the long and needless premature (warranty) replacement of the climate-control regulation system. But, as I explained in other threads, for the type of driving I now do on a daily basis (and, to an extent, even when I bought it)...it's simply too long, bulky, low-stance, and difficult to park, even with the back-up camera. It was clearly designed for the type of cruise-driving that I don't really give it that much. Like it or not, it's time to move on, even if it means giving up some of that silky-smooth comfort. And I'm also at the point where some of those new safety-features (rear cross-traffic-alert, blind-spot monitoring, 360-camera, obstacle-detection system, etc...) are starting to look a lot more attractive. My Encore GX will have all of that (much of it standard), and more, including a Heads-Up display and Hands-Off liftgate feature, even on the midrange Select trim level.



My experience wth people who buy or lease vehicles is that they do so for all kinds of reasons...vanilla or not. Some folks, though, particularly seniors and/or those with weak backs, specifically want something smooth over bumps...they are the ones most likely to avoid stiffly-sprung sport-oriented vehicles.



Well, no, the Venza won't have the comfort of a Navigator, Escalade, Range Rover, or LX570, but I think that what the reviewer in that video was trying to point out was that, to him, it was quite pleasing to drive for something in that class. Not having driven or evaluated the vehicle (or even physically seen it yet) myself, I can't personally vouch for that.....I simply go by what the reviewer says. Toyota crossovers, in general, though, tend to have rather soft underpinnings for good ride comfort, with sharp handling a secondary priority.

I may take a look at a Venza next week.....you and Jill have my curiosity in it up somewhat. They are starting to come into local Toyota shops now.

SW17LS

You are still equating softly sprung cars that are smooth over bumps with being vanilla, and thats not the case. I don't consider my car vanilla and its incredibly smooth and soft. Nor do I consider an S Class or a 7 Series or an A8, or many other very soft and smooth cars vanilla. These cars are built to a standard, to try and create an experience for the person who drives them and owns them. They are made to be "special". A car that is "vanilla" is not, it has nothing to do with being sporty or not.

The issue I have with modern Toyotas, is they aren't designed to be anything but adequate. They've tried to interject some style in to them with mixed results, but at their cores their cars are just nothing special. This Venza is the poster child for "nothing special" "totally adequate". Like I've said before, there is not one Toyota model that is class leading in any way other that fuel economy, or that has a way about it that stands out from the pack. People buy them because they are Toyotas and they are invested in the brand, the majority of those buyers don't cross shop with other brands. They set out to buy a Highlander...or a Corolla....or a *insert Toyota here*.

Toyota rests on their laurels unlike any other carmaker. Lazy.

Those would not be competitors to the Venza. Compare it to a Blazer, or a Santa Fe, or an Edge, or an Atlas Cross Sport...I will bet you money those cars will leave an impression and the Venza won't. All of those will be as comfortable as a Venza, and as reliable more or less as a Venza, but they have more character, more thought went into their design, their interiors are better, and they will create more of an experience for their drivers.

I can make a list of cars at all price points that I think are special in some way, that really excel in some area and no Toyota would even be a consideration for the list, let alone make it. Except the Supra...and thats because its a BMW. The only Lexus I would put on that list is the LC. The LS I would have before the 500, that car is just too confused.

Wilson2000

I'm glad I could help you prove your point! Each of us have different criteria for what is important in a vehicle. "For me," it's reliability. I'm planning on test driving the G80, but I doubt it will go 10 years without any issues, as my wife's ES has. I'm willing to give a little in this regard, but not a lot.

SW17LS

My point is, many cars have excellent track records for reliability. You will likely buy another Lexus or Toyota and THAT wont go 10 years without any issues. I've never owned a Toyota/Lexus product that went 3 years with *no* issues, let alone 10. I would absolutely have every confidence a G80 will be as reliable as a Lexus ES, and its a much better car to boot.

Toyota is not the only company that can make a reliable car like some people here tend to imply. You're not going from #1 in reliability to #34. You're going from #1 to #3...thats a very small statistical difference and you will be fine.

Lets put it this way, I had the worlds least reliable minivan. And I got another one and didnt even consider the Toyota competitor because its just....blah. I'd rather put a car in the shop a few times then drive something that doesn't do anything for me. You're considering cars that are all very similar in reliability to Lexus...you will be fine.

spwolf

really, so literally almost every vehicle on the market is better than any Toyota/Lexus, with exception of Supra and LC?

How does that work? I assume you did not test Venza and compared it to Blazer, Santa Fe, Edge, or Atlas Cross Sport. Instead, you are painting an very broad, inaccurate picture that reflects only your own resentment of TMC, possibly because you think LS is not what it once was?

p.s. Most people believe vehicle you drive is epitome of vanilla.

SW17LS

Honestly, I find almost every vehicle on the market more appealing than modern Toyotas. There is not one Toyota currently I would choose in its class. I haven't driven a Venza, but I have read and watched reviews and stand by my opinion. Has nothing to do with the LS, and as a matter of fact I think the LS' issues are a separate problem. A lot of thought and care went into the LS500, they just made poor choices.

Absolutely, and I admitted that. But, the LS was designed with care, it was designed to be supremely refined and quiet and comfortable which it is. It excels at something. My point was that those of us that have issues with cars like this aren't looking for everything to be a sports car. What we do want are cars that feel special in some way.

Toyota CAN do both.

sdls

I see what you did there

mmarshall

No, not to me, they aren't vanilla. It is (mostly) the auto press and enthusiast-magazines that somehow give that impression about smooth-riders....problem is, they also have a lot of influence with the automakers.

When I said that the Venza probably did not have the comfort of the luxo-grade SUVs, as I often do, I has using a figure of speech.....not trying to compare them directly. That's just my writing style.....I often use hyperboles.

Over and above that, I can only go by other reviews, as I haven't personally sampled a Venza. I may (?), however, do so next week...it has my curiosity up.

JDR76

My sister just recently traded in her Murano for a new RAV4 Hybrid. I tried to talk her into looking at the Venza, but she couldn't get past the name and the fact that she really disliked the old Venza. I tried explaining that it isn't related to the old Venza, but she couldn't get past that.

She had so many issues with her 2015 Murano that she was only willing to consider a Toyota product this time around, which surprised me as I thought the Murano with 50k miles was doing well for her, but turns out it wasn't. She briefly considered a new Volvo but was also worried about reliability. She refuses to ever consider a Nissan product again.

The only Toyota product I've had with numerous issues was my Scion tC. That thing was always having issues, which was too bad because otherwise I really enjoyed the car. I traded it in for my 4Runner. I put almost 70k miles on that thing and didn't have a single issue. My 15 GS was also good. Over 3 years without a single warranty repair or rattle. I think my 2011 Tacoma had 2 warranty repairs (squeaky clutch pedal and a noisy interior fan). Both of our Highlanders have been exceptional as well, though to be fair neither have had a ton of miles on them.

We do plan to keep the current GS, Highlander, and Tacoma long term. But with that said, I have no idea what I would replace any of them with should that need arise. They axed the GS and there are no other Lexus sedans that appeal to me. I'd probably move toward a BMW 540i. We don't care for the new Highlander, but if Lexus comes out with a good three row hybrid crossover we'd consider that as my wife misses her RX. If we had to replace the Tacoma, I'd likely just buy another one.

SW17LS

I will add one other Toyota product I would choose, the Tacoma.

Wandl

Couldn't have said it better myself - while Toyota does make overly reliable vehicles, that does not mean Toyota is the only vehicle that can make reliable vehicles. Genesis (for example) is off to a strong start and they legally back up their reliability with a longer warranty that Toyota has not matched. To put this into real-world perspective, visit your local Toyota/Lexus dealership and ask/observe how many cars are getting warranty work.

One needs to look no further than the reason they kept the Tundra/LC/LX/Sienna/Sequoia essentially unchanged (I don't count the minor refreshes) for over a decade to showcase Toyota prioritizes reliability above all else in a buying - back on topic, the new Venza and Sienna are "safe bets" for Toyota, it shows by Toyota insisting on using the 2.5L hybrid powertrain. I'm sure it'll sell, but the same powertrain that struggles to carry a fully loaded Rav4 Hybrid on an incline will now take my family of 6 + a pet + luggage on a road trip? I'd do the Pacifica or venture with a Telluride/Palisade.

Steve's last point is absolutely on point; for many of us, a vehicle is more than just a "thing with 4 wheels to get us from point A to point B". For those making a vehicle decision an emotional one, there are very few Toyota/Lexus vehicles that would put a smile on your face every time you drove it (I'd say the Supra and LC tops my list). Reliability isn't the sole factor & decision criteria many use to make a vehicle purchase, combine that with the fact there are brands with reliable cars that are emotionally stimulating.

JDR76

In my experience, the RAV4 hybrid doesn't struggle at all. I just drove my parents' fully loaded RAV4 hybrid over the mountain pass with ease. Also note that this hybrid system has more power in the Highlander Hybrid and Sienna than it does in the RAV4.

I am curious how it will do in the Sienna, though. That's a substantial reduction in power versus the outgoing model, though it likely has more torque. I remember when the previous Sienna was out and had, I think 210 or 220 hp, and I took one on a trip over the mountains, with 7 people and luggage, and it was definitely loaded down, but it didn't struggle to keep the pace so I suspect this one will be fine too.