If you hate Toyota hybrids with a CVT like me, none of that matters. I hate the way they feel and drive so it can have 700 hp, doesn’t mean anything to me. Give me a V6 or a V8 any day.

I would never buy a Venza for that reason alone. And the Sienna, I would only buy it if it was worlds better than other options, the hybrid only makes it a huge uphill sell for me. The Sienna would have a little more of a shot for me just because it’s a utility not an enjoyment vehicle.

 

I hear you and I prefer the driving feel of the NA V6 myself. However as you pointed for a family vehicle (like the RAV4, Venza, Sienna etc) a 4 cyl hybrid would suffice for most people and that is the market Toyota is after anyway.

 

I wouldn’t underestimate the group of buyers who don’t want a hybrid.

 

i honestly can't imagine how slow the giant sienna will be with a hybrid 4.

 

yes and I think Toyota understands that which is why they are going to continue offering gas engines for majority of their line up. I think the intent here is gradually increase the share of sales coming from non ICE engines

 

I'm sure it will be, because they wouldn't invest in a bespoke hybrid system for the Sienna. But if they did, it wouldn't have to be painfully slow. There's a lot of floorspace in a minivan for batteries, which could drive a much larger electric motor and provide gobs of torque.

Again, I expect it'll have the RAV4's hybrid system and will be a dog. But if so, that's an express decision rather than an inherent weakness in the concept of a hybrid 4 minivan.

 

I drive a Lexus hybrid sports sedan (or that’s how it’s marketed). The ecvt has one big advantage I don’t yet see mentioned here. In my car, it is sweet and smooth most of the time, but when accelerating, the soaring revs sounds as if I am punishing the car. This coincides with the energy meter going into the power zone, albeit briefly. So the natural reaction is to ease off the accelerator, to lessen the aural impact, but to real fuel economy benefit. So, my car discourages me to drive in a particular way aurally, so as to save fuel. Brilliant isn’t it?

 

As the type of car buyer that buys his Toyotas/Lexese used with over 100k miles all his life (8 so far with never a regret - hell my SC is almost 30 years old and still on the original motor), looks like these 2 cars are off the table for me. And that's very sad.

I know I'm not anywhere near TMC's target customer, but I've always taken advantage of depreciation and build quality to get into excellent, reliable cars for almost no money after paying for the first one.

The 1/2/3UZ and 2GR are poster children of engines that you could purchase with over 100k on 'em with 0% hesitation and 100% satisfaction.

Going forward, the choices are slimming for consumers like me and it's very disheartening. I'm surely not buying a Hybrid anything with over 100k on the clock.

Get yer V8's and V6's while you still can, boys! I'm waiting for the LC to keep dropping. Almost there!

 

To be fair, there are lots of old really high mileage hybrids out there that are trouble free. Reliability isn't one of my issues with the hybrid system.

 

I’m sure Toyota just went out on a limb hoping these will sell. No clinics, no marketing. Wait it out for the $1000s in incentives that will be coming to move these.

 

I have zero concerns about long term reliability with hybrids. Electric motors are incredibly reliable, Toyota's eCVT is well proven and robust, and the gas engines are, as we know, well known to be reliable. I also like that the gas engine seldom has to pull the full load. It's not overly strained as there is almost always some electrical assist going on. There are no belts to fail, no starter or alternator. The only real variable is the battery, but even those aren't that bad to replace and have been shown to have excellent life.

As for selling, I don't think they will have any issues moving the Sienna. It's a huge improvement with the latest family friendly features and great mileage. I think it will do well. It will lose some buyers because of the lack of a V6 or fixed second row seating, but I think many shoppers in the segment won't have an issue losing the V6 and strong power in exchange for fuel mileage in the low to mid 30s. That's a huge boon to many.

I'm less convinced of the Venza. I think it's a great package, but I am uncertain if it's really different enough from the RAV4. It's nearly the same size. It was designed to have a more upscale and sleek appearance, but in the end I wonder if it won't just take some people away from the RAV4 Hybrid, though I guess Toyota will be okay with that as the Venza is expected to be more expensive.

 

no removal of second row seats on the sienna is another strike so after having the top of the line awd sienna since 06 we will just take care of our 17. not having that flexibility to remove those seats is a huge huge bummer.

and what are those wanna-be side splitters? wth were they thinking with that and when they stopped offering oem running boards. some really lame decisions made for the sienna imo.

 

Well, I don't think the electric motor would be any issue at all. It's that 'battery' that will bite.
cvt = roll of the dice. Yeah I'll pass

 

Toyota eCVTs are extremely reliable. In fact, I don’t know that I’ve heard of one failing...

Its not like a normal CVT

 

I really like the Sienna front. It's just awful on the sedans but in this case I think more is better. :/ I don't know how it will age, like many autos in this hyperstylized age, I assume it will age like bad milk, but damn if it isn't a looker now and for the next six years. The Harrier/Venza is real smooth. That will be a seller. The powertrain is where it's at. As for power, I have read that the TNGA platform is lightweight. Also, peak power and peak torque aren't always good measuring sticks. I bet the Sienna is making a good amount of torque everywhere. If they (buyers) need a power bump I suspect it'll be 25hp/25tq or something like that. Easily managed stuff.