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2021 Venza and Sienna

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Old 05-21-20 | 09:08 AM
  #121  
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Originally Posted by pbm317
2020 Highlander Hybrid, empty is about 8 seconds 0 to 60. Sienna is quite a bit larger, so I wouldn't be surprised if you're closer to 9+. And then once you load it up... well...
Right, and loaded get on it at 65 to try and pass on a highway, or merge into a highway from a 40MPH roll...you can see how this can be a big issue
Old 05-21-20 | 09:19 AM
  #122  
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Originally Posted by pbm317
2020 Highlander Hybrid, empty is about 8 seconds 0 to 60. Sienna is quite a bit larger, so I wouldn't be surprised if you're closer to 9+. And then once you load it up... well...
8 seconds is painful enough to drive. 9 seconds would be unbearable for me to own in a family car. The V6 Odyssey does 0-60 in mid 6s and the V6 Sienna in high 6s. What a disaster.
Old 05-21-20 | 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by SW17LS
I would have the same concerns with the Highlander, its hard to test drive a vehicle loaded down though.

as for low 8 0-60, my Pacifica does it in the low 7s, and like I said it feels notably lethargic when its fully loaded. You just need to have good power to move a vehicle like that around when its loaded up. With people and cargo, you're talking about a mass of 5200 lbs...
I think that's where the electric motors and low end torque comes into play. Once it gets moving, it shouldnt take much more to keep moving.
Old 05-21-20 | 09:41 AM
  #124  
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Originally Posted by situman
I think that's where the electric motors and low end torque comes into play. Once it gets moving, it shouldnt take much more to keep moving.
That hasn't been my experience driving underpowered hybrids in the past. Then low end torque helps get you off the line, but at highway speeds passing maneuvers are a different matter.
Old 05-21-20 | 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by EZZ
8 seconds is painful enough to drive. 9 seconds would be unbearable for me to own in a family car. The V6 Odyssey does 0-60 in mid 6s and the V6 Sienna in high 6s. What a disaster.
Originally Posted by SW17LS
That hasn't been my experience driving underpowered hybrids in the past. Then low end torque helps get you off the line, but at highway speeds passing maneuvers are a different matter.
I think whatever power issues this version has, Toyota will have a Prime version out within a year or two. Personally, I wouldnt drive anything with a 4cyl no matter how power it is. I'll admit I'm too spoil by driving V6s and now the V8 in my GX. I dont even know if I can even go back to a V6.
Old 05-21-20 | 10:36 AM
  #126  
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been waiting for toyota to release the new Sienna so the prices on the outgoing model will finally drop!
crazy to think how long toyota kept the current model going, but i understand not to disturb a good thing if it's selling (e.g. 4runner)!
Old 05-21-20 | 12:42 PM
  #127  
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Same here, I really don't have any interest in a 4 cyl.
Old 05-21-20 | 01:04 PM
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I have the current pre facelift Sienna with the 6 cyl in the family. I think it has 268 horsepower and I cant stand driving it. For some reason, I always felt that it was too much power for that van, and the accelerator is super jumpy and hard to control. I just constantly slip the front tires if you accelerator anything more than half throttle at a stop. I think 240 hp is about right for this vehicle.
Old 05-21-20 | 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by RXSF
I have the current pre facelift Sienna with the 6 cyl in the family. I think it has 268 horsepower and I cant stand driving it. For some reason, I always felt that it was too much power for that van, and the accelerator is super jumpy and hard to control. I just constantly slip the front tires if you accelerator anything more than half throttle at a stop. I think 240 hp is about right for this vehicle.
Thats a problem with all FWD large vehicles like that, its not just the Sienna. Both vans I've had, my Pacifica and the Sedona I had before it were the same way, they light/lit the tires up super easy from a stop, especially in the rain. Its just a lot of mass to be pulling from the front wheels from a stop. If you had an AWD Sienna that would solve that, and thats one of the big reasons why I would always get AWD in any large vehicle that has it offered if the base drivetrain was FWD.

Remember what gets you moving from a stop is torque, not HP. The low end torque of a hybrid will make that situation worse if anything. Horsepower is what you use when making merge movements and accelerating at speed like we are talking about.
Old 05-21-20 | 04:56 PM
  #130  
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Originally Posted by SW17LS
Its not just those mountain grades, its passing power on the highway, merging power. all of that goes into a feeling of confidence on the road.

Keep in mind on a lot of those smaller mountain roads you have to be able to pass into oncoming traffic too. I just don't see 4-5 people and luggage and all plus a 5,000 lb vehicle feeling confidence inspiring with a 240hp 4cyl hybrid powertrain.

With this being a family vehicle, that scenario is absolutely what its designed for too.
Well, Sienna is around 100lbs lighter than Highlander, and all those reviews of Highlander Hybrid were praising it as if you cant really feel much difference between it and V6... so it will be interesting to see.
Both Highlander and Sienna have 20hp extra electric power compared to Rav4, and that is probably what is making the difference when driving it in real life.
Old 05-21-20 | 05:31 PM
  #131  
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Originally Posted by spwolf
Well, Sienna is around 100lbs lighter than Highlander, and all those reviews of Highlander Hybrid were praising it as if you cant really feel much difference between it and V6... so it will be interesting to see.
Both Highlander and Sienna have 20hp extra electric power compared to Rav4, and that is probably what is making the difference when driving it in real life.
Did they load it down with 5 people and gear?

Just one person in the van I'm sure its fine.
Old 05-21-20 | 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by RNM GS3
Wow I really like the designs on both of these and interiors look great too.

219hp for Venza seems very low. It needs 250-275hp minimum and V6 option at least.
There needs to be market differentiation between the Venza and the Lexus RX.

Regarding hybrids and passing ability, hybrids tend to overperform for their rated horsepower in terms of in gear acceleration ie overtaking /merging /passing ability because of the instant response of the electric motor. I think looking at 30-40,40-50,50-60, 60-70 etc acceleration times will settle all the arguments regarding passing and overtaking ability.

Last edited by natnut; 05-21-20 at 10:58 PM.
Old 05-22-20 | 12:55 AM
  #133  
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Originally Posted by natnut
There needs to be market differentiation between the Venza and the Lexus RX.

Regarding hybrids and passing ability, hybrids tend to overperform for their rated horsepower in terms of in gear acceleration ie overtaking /merging /passing ability because of the instant response of the electric motor. I think looking at 30-40,40-50,50-60, 60-70 etc acceleration times will settle all the arguments regarding passing and overtaking ability.
Having previously owned an RX450h Awd for 8 years, I cannot say that I was ever able to feel the "instant" torque that hybrids were always touted for. Granted, that car was heavy, but it still had 298 horsepower. That car never felt fast to me at any speed. It was decent as a family hauler, but I was never impressed. I think the RXh was around 4500 pounds too, just like the Sienna.
Old 05-22-20 | 06:24 AM
  #134  
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Specific comments about the Highlander Hybrid's power:

From CNET: https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/review...um-awd-review/
Enabling this SUV to sip fuel like when you take that first, tongue-scalding slurp of piping-hot coffee is a familiar drivetrain. Behind that broad, smiling grille you'll find a two-motor hybrid system built around a 2.5-liter four-cylinder engine. That gasoline-burner is matched to a pair of electric motor-generators that, among other things, function as a continuously variable transmission. Total system output clocks in at 243 horsepower, a more-than-adequate figure, if hardly a thrilling one.It's true, I wish the Highlander Hybrid had a little more giddy-up. That drivetrain is mostly smooth and quiet, though you do know when it's straining. Give this vehicle the spurs and unmistakable four-cylinder thrum becomes apparent. No, it's not obtrusive, especially in Limited and Platinum models, which feature laminated front-window glass for an even quieter cabin, but you can hear that combustion engine churning away at certain times.
From Motor1: https://www.motor1.com/reviews/39131...-drive-review/
The loss of two cylinders, however, leaves the crossover with less grunt from its engine and electric motors. With a total of 243 horses, the Highlander Hybrid is down 63 ponies to last year’s model. Predictably, the three-row Toyota hybrid accelerates with less authority. Although the powertrain offers enough gumption to putter the crossover around the low-speed roads of Gruene, Texas at a reasonable pace, the gas engine and electric motors struggle to move the Highlander Hybrid’s more than 4,300 pounds of mass when passing slower moving traffic on the highways that lead to San Antonio, Texas. And that’s with a near-empty cabin. Add in passengers or cargo – or take advantage of the crossover’s 3,500-pound towing capacity – and the Highlander Hybrid is sure to struggle even more.
Can't wait to give the new Sienna an evaluation drive. Fuel economy gains are potentially impressive. Just don't want to make it a slug.
Old 05-22-20 | 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by RXSF
Having previously owned an RX450h Awd for 8 years, I cannot say that I was ever able to feel the "instant" torque that hybrids were always touted for. Granted, that car was heavy, but it still had 298 horsepower. That car never felt fast to me at any speed. It was decent as a family hauler, but I was never impressed. I think the RXh was around 4500 pounds too, just like the Sienna.
Like I said, best way to settle the argument are the objective X to X+10 acceleration times compared to its competitors in the same class, otherwise it becomes too subjective.


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