Why doesn't toyota bring back the FJ Cruiser?
#16
Lexus Test Driver
#17
Lexus Champion
I'm not saying it wouldn't be cool...but that cool factor needs to translate to enough sales to justify it.
#18
I think it's fair to assume that Toyota has a well-staffed market research dept, and if they could be printing money by selling an updated 4-door FJ that would give the Wrangler a run for its money, they'd be doing it.
I'm not saying it wouldn't be cool...but that cool factor needs to translate to enough sales to justify it.
I'm not saying it wouldn't be cool...but that cool factor needs to translate to enough sales to justify it.
I am sure you would probably agree that a actual usable 7 seater lexus crossover would print money but Toyota has sat on their laurels while every german manufacturer have been making a killing on their 7 seater crossover.
That same market research team released the RC and LC that are doing terrible in sales numbers because they thought 2 coupes would sell well vs releasing 2 new luxury crossover.
#19
not because they have a well staffed market research dept means they are always right.
I am sure you would probably agree that a actual usable 7 seater lexus crossover would print money but Toyota has sat on their laurels while every german manufacturer have been making a killing on their 7 seater crossover.
That same market research team released the RC and LC that are doing terrible in sales numbers because they thought 2 coupes would sell well vs releasing 2 new luxury crossover.
I am sure you would probably agree that a actual usable 7 seater lexus crossover would print money but Toyota has sat on their laurels while every german manufacturer have been making a killing on their 7 seater crossover.
That same market research team released the RC and LC that are doing terrible in sales numbers because they thought 2 coupes would sell well vs releasing 2 new luxury crossover.
I'm not saying I agree with this strategy, just explaining my experience and exposure to the Toyota way.
If they had made a significant redesign of 4Runner even a couple years ago, let's leave FJ out for now, they could very well challenge Jeep Grand Cherokee's overall sales and market share. I could've seen 4Runner go Grand Cherokee style and mix in some better uplevel trims to align with the Overland/Summit, etc. While letting the FJ tackle the off road purists with better approach/departure angles, beefier axles, etc. This was the Lexus strategy to use IS/ES as the Sport Sedan/Executive Sedan in similar price tiers vs a one size fits some.
#20
Exactly right and crucial examples. Obviously no one has a crystal ball, and Toyota was expecting gas prices to continue to climb and the demise of body on frame SUV's that aren't full size a la Suburban, Expedition, etc. They've put some more lipstick on the 4Runner and the rising tide of SUVs has helped lift this one as well, but as most people here know, it's still woefully behind. It was behind the times nearly 10 years ago when it came out let alone today. Toyota is a profitable automaker, not because they have the best products, but because have chosen to be in the middle of the road consciously. They are okay with not maximizing every opportunity because they feel it shelters them from the lowest of the valleys.
I'm not saying I agree with this strategy, just explaining my experience and exposure to the Toyota way.
If they had made a significant redesign of 4Runner even a couple years ago, let's leave FJ out for now, they could very well challenge Jeep Grand Cherokee's overall sales and market share. I could've seen 4Runner go Grand Cherokee style and mix in some better uplevel trims to align with the Overland/Summit, etc. While letting the FJ tackle the off road purists with better approach/departure angles, beefier axles, etc. This was the Lexus strategy to use IS/ES as the Sport Sedan/Executive Sedan in similar price tiers vs a one size fits some.
I'm not saying I agree with this strategy, just explaining my experience and exposure to the Toyota way.
If they had made a significant redesign of 4Runner even a couple years ago, let's leave FJ out for now, they could very well challenge Jeep Grand Cherokee's overall sales and market share. I could've seen 4Runner go Grand Cherokee style and mix in some better uplevel trims to align with the Overland/Summit, etc. While letting the FJ tackle the off road purists with better approach/departure angles, beefier axles, etc. This was the Lexus strategy to use IS/ES as the Sport Sedan/Executive Sedan in similar price tiers vs a one size fits some.
The 4runner reputation keeps it selling. Imagine if it was an actual competitive product. Toyota is such a world wide brand where I believe a new FJ would do really well in other countries too. My home country which is considered "poor" has a landcruiser prado for every corolla it seems at times. If not the Prado it is a Toyota Fortuner or Hilux.
#21
Lexus Fanatic
One thing that, so far, seems left out of this thread is what effect the upcoming body-on-frame Ford Bronco will have on the market (personally, I think it will do well, but we'll see...I've been wrong before). Bronco sales might be a clue as to the potential market for a new/updated FJ Cruiser....not only in the body-on-frame SUV business, but also because the Bronco, like the FJ, is a retro-design, style-wise.
#22
One thing that, so far, seems left out of this thread is what effect the upcoming body-on-frame Ford Bronco will have on the market (personally, I think it will do well, but we'll see...I've been wrong before). Bronco sales might be a clue as to the potential market for a new/updated FJ Cruiser....not only in the body-on-frame SUV business, but also because the Bronco, like the FJ, is a retro-design, style-wise.
#23
One thing that, so far, seems left out of this thread is what effect the upcoming body-on-frame Ford Bronco will have on the market (personally, I think it will do well, but we'll see...I've been wrong before). Bronco sales might be a clue as to the potential market for a new/updated FJ Cruiser....not only in the body-on-frame SUV business, but also because the Bronco, like the FJ, is a retro-design, style-wise.
#25
Lexus Champion
not because they have a well staffed market research dept means they are always right.
I am sure you would probably agree that a actual usable 7 seater lexus crossover would print money but Toyota has sat on their laurels while every german manufacturer have been making a killing on their 7 seater crossover.
That same market research team released the RC and LC that are doing terrible in sales numbers because they thought 2 coupes would sell well vs releasing 2 new luxury crossover.
I am sure you would probably agree that a actual usable 7 seater lexus crossover would print money but Toyota has sat on their laurels while every german manufacturer have been making a killing on their 7 seater crossover.
That same market research team released the RC and LC that are doing terrible in sales numbers because they thought 2 coupes would sell well vs releasing 2 new luxury crossover.
#26
Yeah--no automaker gets it right 100% of the time. But we're all spitballing here on what Toyota "should do", and what would be uber profitable for them, and we don't have a lick of hard market data other than total guesses. So I'm not saying Toyota's right, and CL is wrong. I'm just saying WTF do we all really know about the market that Toyota's somehow missing?
#27
Lead Lap
iTrader: (1)
I love my Trail Team FJ. Funny thing is these days, they are all trading between $29,000-$45,000. MORE than they were new just 6-7 years ago . I am holding on to mine.
My wife's LX570 dime a dozen around here, as are 4Runner. My TTFJ is rare enough, I can find it in a parking lot
My wife's LX570 dime a dozen around here, as are 4Runner. My TTFJ is rare enough, I can find it in a parking lot
#28
Pole Position
Knowing the popularity of the original FJ40 and the FJ, it seems like an obvious call to rework the design, fix the problems noted above, and develop a new FJ to compete with, and beat, the Wrangler. Wrangler sets a low bar to hurdle.
Too, I agree with the poster who said the rugged looks of the FJ and Wrangler appeal to women. I was single in the 80's when I owned a FJ40, and was surprised how much of a magnet it was!
#29
Lexus Champion
And the popularity of the original FJ40--what relevance does that have 50 years later? The car marketplace is so different today.
#30
Pole Position
All I wrote was that Toyota should listen more to clubs like CL.
Toyota, and all auto manufacturer's, tend to design and engineer products they think the public wants. Very successful companies focus on their customers. Steve Jobs knew that making his PC's and all successive products customer-friendly would open up the world of computing to everyone. For instance, in the 80's, I hadn't ever touched a computer, most people hadn't, and I never thought I would. Then the user-friendly Mac came along and it changed everything. By 1990, I couldn't do my job without one. Too, in the 90's, I never thought I would buy products on line. Then came Amazon who focused on customer service, and changed the world!
I believe there is an opportunity for an automaker to pull an Apple or a Amazon. GM tried it with Saturn, and Toyota, Honda and Nissan tried it to some extent with their luxury divisions, and all were successful (to some extent). However, I don't think they took it to the necessary extreme of putting the "customer first" in all decision making.
Elon: If you are on-board with this, I'd be happy to come out of retirement to head up your marketing division!
Toyota, and all auto manufacturer's, tend to design and engineer products they think the public wants. Very successful companies focus on their customers. Steve Jobs knew that making his PC's and all successive products customer-friendly would open up the world of computing to everyone. For instance, in the 80's, I hadn't ever touched a computer, most people hadn't, and I never thought I would. Then the user-friendly Mac came along and it changed everything. By 1990, I couldn't do my job without one. Too, in the 90's, I never thought I would buy products on line. Then came Amazon who focused on customer service, and changed the world!
I believe there is an opportunity for an automaker to pull an Apple or a Amazon. GM tried it with Saturn, and Toyota, Honda and Nissan tried it to some extent with their luxury divisions, and all were successful (to some extent). However, I don't think they took it to the necessary extreme of putting the "customer first" in all decision making.
Elon: If you are on-board with this, I'd be happy to come out of retirement to head up your marketing division!