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I guess you'll have to define full brake job for me. In my world, that's rotors, pads, and (for German cars like this one), pad wear sensors for all 4 corners. As I pointed out, these OE parts are available for exactly $3k. Labor is very minimal. What's your definition? Does a full brake job include replacing the calipers? lines? booster? ABS computer? the pedal?
Split hairs all you want to downplay how much of a fortune it costs to maintain these AMG cars, not to mention just any complex Mercedes. 99.5% of owners take these (at least newish) cars to dealers, they're not chasing internet deals. They're rich people that will pay the outrageous cost.
Originally Posted by geko29
You're also presupposing here that the only possible way to get brakes replaced on a Mercedes is by taking it to a Mercedes dealer, which is a faulty assumption. There are literally millions of people in the US qualified to replace pads and rotors, and well over 99% of them don't work at a Mercedes dealer. Three live in my household. One of them is twelve years old.
See my above point. Because your kid can fix brakes, that doesn't really change anything. Most people (maybe unlike all of us, on these forums) just take these cars to the dealer. The overwhelming majority do.
Originally Posted by geko29
Not so fast. You have to read past the first sentence of the post. He was actually quoted $5500. You can find that little morsel in the third sentence. Also note a few posts down several people pointed out that there's no chance his rotors need to be replaced at 47k. So this is just a shady dealer quoting unnecessary work. And per my previous post, removing the rotors from the list cuts the cost for OE parts from $3k to down below $250.
Well, actually, you didn't read it right. The $5500 was for a dealer special coupon. Original cost? $8800 plus tax. Here in Knoxville with tax and everything that would come quite close to.....five figures.
This isn't necessarily about a 2012 S65 AMG like in the OP, but see below:
Which brings us to the downside: changing the rotors. According to several people on the AMG forums, they received a carbon ceramic brake rotor and pad change estimate of somewhere between $15,000 and $18,000 when the time finally came to do the work. I looked up the parts myself, and it appears that just the parts — rotors and pads — are somewhere in the neighborhood of $11,000. Add in labor, and that $15,000 to $18,000 seems high, but not totally out of the realm of possibility.
In other words, the cool car you ordered with carbon ceramic brakes in 2014 will have a necessary repair of maybe $15,000 in about 2024. And this leads me to my point: Nobody is going to want these things when they’re used cars.
The thing is, while the carbon ceramic brakes may have made sense for the original owner, who spent $120,000 or more for the car when it was new, a 10-year-old AMG Mercedes is worth maybe $20,000 to $25,000 — and nobody in that realm is going to want to spend another $15,000 just to change the brakes.
Originally Posted by geko29
But even for replacing everything, at the dealer, $5500 is nowhere near "five figure territory" as you claimed.
Well, I wasn't talking about a dealer special coupon deal.
Originally Posted by geko29
FCP Euro gives a lifetime warranty on everything they sell, including wear items like brake pads and rotors. Only things that come in a can or bottle (oil, brake fluid, lithium grease, etc) are excluded. Most people who actually do work on German cars know this.
So an S65 owner can get lifetime brakes when they take their cars to the dealer? Most people don't work on their own S65s--- are you serious?
I did just call and leave a message at MB of Knox and asked a quote for a 2012 S65 full brake job, I'll report back.
Nobody was knocking these cars to begin with, I was just pointing out the correct fact that they cost a fortune to maintain.
See my above point. Because your kid can fix brakes, that doesn't really change anything. Most people (maybe unlike all of us, on these forums) just take these cars to the dealer. The overwhelming majority do.
This is not my experience. Although I only know a handful of people aside from myself that do their own work, I ALSO only know a handful of people who obsessively take their cars to the dealer for out-of-warranty maintenance. Most go to an independent shop or national chain.
Originally Posted by AJT123
Well, actually, you didn't read it right. The $5500 was for a dealer special coupon. Original cost? $8800 plus tax. Here in Knoxville with tax and everything that would come quite close to.....five figures.
LOL, you fell for it too! It was a January Special. I bet there's also a February Special. And a March Special. And an April Special. You've really never shopped anywhere that had prices that were artificially inflated, that coincidentally had sales all the time?
Nearly every poster in that thread confirmed that $5500 was "about right" for this work done by the dealer, and almost entirely driven by the cost of parts. You really think this one dealer consistently gets 60% more for this job than every other Mercedes dealer?
Originally Posted by AJT123
This isn't necessarily about a 2012 S65 AMG like in the OP, but see below:
Not even going to respond to this one. Everyone knows how much Carbon Ceramic brakes cost, and they're not available on any of the cars we're discussing here, even as an option.
Originally Posted by AJT123
Well, I wasn't talking about a dealer special coupon deal.
Even if it's available 365 days a year?
Originally Posted by AJT123
So an S65 owner can get lifetime brakes when they take their cars to the dealer? Most people don't work on their own S65s--- are you serious?
Remember we're talking about a 9-year old car here, which in this class is almost never still owned by the original purchaser. Someone who buys a highly-depreciated luxury car is likely at least somewhat cost-conscious, even though the original owner probably was not. We're not talking about someone who spent $268k on a 2020, we're talking about someone who bought a 2012 for $50k. These are totally different people, and it's beyond silly to pretend that they're not.
Even if they don't do their own work (and I'll concede that many likely don't), they are nonetheless still likely looking to save money when they reasonably can. Saving $2,300 by ordering parts for $3k and taking them to a local shop for $200 installation just might be a good investment of 5 minutes of their time. Even better if you actually believe that the job would be that ridiculous $8,800 figure. Then the savings more than double, to $5,600.
Originally Posted by AJT123
I did just call and leave a message at MB of Knox and asked a quote for a 2012 S65 full brake job, I'll report back.
Ok. It will be an interesting bit of trivia, at least.
This is not my experience. Although I only know a handful of people aside from myself that do their own work, I ALSO only know a handful of people who obsessively take their cars to the dealer for out-of-warranty maintenance. Most go to an independent shop or national chain.
Right. We are the vast minority. We are on these car forums, we have thousands of posts. Everyone else that's not like us just drops them off at the dealer. You're a major car guy as am I and the rest of us. Of course we know lots of people who can get good work done for cheap and/or people that work on their cars. The masses just drop them off at the MB dealer. My point isn't "Hey you can get an 8k brake job at this indy for half price" my point is "general maintenance on these cars is pretty insane." It's not a knock, would I like to drive an S65? Uh yeah!
Originally Posted by geko29
LOL, you fell for it too! It was a January Special. I bet there's also a February Special. And a March Special. And an April Special. You've really never shopped anywhere that had prices that were artificially inflated, that coincidentally had sales all the time?
Full price was $8800 or something close to that. You can pull up countless other threads. People pay that insane price all the time with these. With tax that's very close to 5 figures. I don't really know what we're arguing about here, I'm not degrading these cars. I'm saying "don't go from an LS430 to an S65 and expect just gas and oil changes and only pennies per year to maintain and repair."
Originally Posted by geko29
Nearly every poster in that thread confirmed that $5500 was "about right" for this work done by the dealer, and almost entirely driven by the cost of parts. You really think this one dealer consistently gets 60% more for this job than every other Mercedes dealer?
I don't care to read the thread....the dealer originally quoted $8800..period. $5500 is still a pretty insane amount.
Originally Posted by geko29
Not even going to respond to this one. Everyone knows how much Carbon Ceramic brakes cost, and they're not available on any of the cars we're discussing here, even as an option.
Except you were the one who countered my original statement to begin with, which wasn't specifically about an S65. I never said just S65. My original quote was "the brake jobs on high end AMG cars can get into 5 figure territory" which is true. You passed that article off I posted as nothing I guess bc that S65 was a 2012 but now LOTS of these AMG cars come with ceramics. Which further proves my point.
Originally Posted by geko29
Even if they don't do their own work (and I'll concede that many likely don't), they are nonetheless still likely looking to save money when they reasonably can. Saving $2,300 by ordering parts for $3k and taking them to a local shop for $200 installation just might be a good investment of 5 minutes of their time. Even better if you actually believe that the job would be that ridiculous $8,800 figure. Then the savings more than double, to $5,600.
Sure. I don't go to the Lexus dealer (however there are certain things I would only go there for like transmission work) but all I was saying is keeping a high end AMG is going to cost a fortune. It wasn't meant to degrade or offend anyone. The people who buy a $250k 2020 S65 **** $10k+ for brake jobs.
As tempting as a cheap AMG would be I'd never own one. I could afford to maintain one within reason but I just wouldn't be comfortable spending just that much money on a vehicle for maintenance, let alone repairs, and these things do break let's not kid ourselves here.
Originally Posted by geko29
Ok. It will be an interesting bit of trivia, at least.
They didn't even call me back yet, great dealer service for a 200k+ car. You'd think they could hit a few keystrokes, see the amount and dial my 7 numbers back. If they don't call me back tomorrow I'll call them again. I want to know what the exact dealer price would be.
my point is "general maintenance on these cars is pretty insane."
i promise you if that were really the case i wouldn't have kept mine around for over 3 years
general maintenance on these cars is more or less like any other just slightly more annoying and expensive in basically every way... for instance: my car takes 9 quarts of synthetic 0W-40, has 2 oil drain plugs, 2 spark plugs per cylinder, 2 sets of brake pads for each front wheel, and because the engine is so huge it can be tricky finding space to work
the oil filter is actually right on top of the engine though so that's actually pretty easy and straightforward to deal with... but even the filter itself is a cartridge type that sits on this whole apparatus thing with 4 o-rings that need to be changed with every new filter, very easy to do but just more steps that don't apply to most cars
and although the parts for the brakes are expensive (which is sort of a good thing since you really wanna be sure you can stop in time with these power levels) you can go a very long time in between having to change them assuming you're not going to a track or something
honestly the main cost increase compared to most cars is how much fuel they use lol
But newer, more modern AMG high end cars are lotttttts more complex than yours.
Hell, I want one. But I'm a semi- practical person, spending 40k on a car or truck is as much as I'll ever go.
we're not talking about brand new ones though lol, the original video is about a decade old S65 that still uses an over 2 decade old 5-speed trans, maintenance on that car still pretty much directly applies to a 2003 model
i'm not familiar with the very latest offerings but i can tell you my dad's 2015 E63 is actually a more simple car than mine in several ways... it's got conventional front suspension, only 1 set of brake pads per wheel, dual zone climate control not 4-zone, the oil filter housing has essentially a built in hex bolt so you just need a regular socket to take it off and not a separate oil filter wrench, and the oil itself gets changed by sucking it out through the dipstick tube so you don't even need to get under the car and take off all the splash guards... a $70 fluid extractor pump will pay for itself the very first oil change (the dealer changes it the exact same way)
the main costs and complexity just comes from what mercedes already do to the high end models (largely the ABC suspension), if one can afford to keep an S600 going there's nothing about the S65 that would put it out of the price range... ceramic brakes are really the only vastly more expensive difference you might find on an AMG model
the main costs and complexity just comes from what mercedes already do to the high end models (largely the ABC suspension), if one can afford to keep an S600 going there's nothing about the S65 that would put it out of the price range... ceramic brakes are really the only vastly more expensive difference you might find on an AMG model
What about engine trouble? I'd assume an engine rebuild in a hand-built AMG engine would be vassstly more expensive than on a garden variety MB V8 or I6?
I'm on your side, I love these cars too. I just would never pull the trigger because the maintenance and repair cost etc is not for me, and no, I don't think the wood trim in that $200,000 S65 looks all that impressive lol which was all I originally said. You have ***** for owning an E55 for as long as you have, lol.
I could see one of us possibly leasing a new German car if we wanted to go that route bc warranty and free service, but I'm really not a lease person.
The bottom line is, you gotta pay to play....and anybody who has brakes (or anything else) done to an 8 year old Mercedes at the dealer is crazy. If you want that sort of car, the savings of buying one that age vs a new one (which is a $200,000 car) is so insane any cost of repairs or maintenance is small compared to the savings from new.
What about engine trouble? I'd assume an engine rebuild in a hand-built AMG engine would be vassstly more expensive than on a garden variety MB V8 or I6?
i try not to think about that lol... but other than some parts probably being a bit more costly I really don't see what would make it THAT much more expensive
one of the earlier things I did after getting the car was send my oil in to blackstone for analysis and the report came back totally a-ok, so that gave me some peace of mind about the next few years
i also have a good guy to go to and I'm generally mechanically inclined enough to do basic work and maintenance myself
The bottom line is, you gotta pay to play....and anybody who has brakes (or anything else) done to an 8 year old Mercedes at the dealer is crazy. If you want that sort of car, the savings of buying one that age vs a new one (which is a $200,000 car) is so insane any cost of repairs or maintenance is small compared to the savings from new.
about 2 years ago I got my entire fuel tank replaced for free at the dealer
any W211 e-class that's under 15 years old is still covered for this recall, and the SBC brake components are now covered out to 25 years! every so often going to the dealer is actually the move lol..
i try not to think about that lol... but other than some parts probably being a bit more costly I really don't see what would make it THAT much more expensive
What engine is in yours? The M113? IIRC that family was the old 4.3 (275hp) and 5.0 (302hp) from around 20 years ago which are pretty bulletproof. They're lovely engines even NA, god only knows what your car's acceleration is like lol. I assume your V8 can handle the FI with minimal fuss, they are under stressed V8s to begin with.
What engine is in yours? The M113? IIRC that family was the old 4.3 (275hp) and 5.0 (302hp) from around 20 years ago which are pretty bulletproof. They're lovely engines even NA, god only knows what your car's acceleration is like lol. I assume your V8 can handle the FI with minimal fuss, they are under stressed V8s to begin with.
yea the M113, it is indeed a lovely engine... quite simple as well
and AMG even produced a nice little video of one getting put together lol
the acceleration is crazy though, you get tesla levels of immediate shove but it just keeps going... it also just sounds so good and there's literally no such thing as being in the wrong gear or rpm to effortlessly pass just about anyone
my friend is driving it and getting on the highway, he starts to put his foot down as one would do in a normal car to merge, checks over his shoulder and when he looks forward again gets startled from not realizing how quickly we'd just caught up with the rest of traffic lol... it really just never gets old, and the perception that owning one will bankrupt you helps keep prices down haha
05-28-20, 06:37 AM
